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Worst. Advice. Ever.
I thought this web site was about manliness? Man the [edited] up! If you like to watch people [edited] watch people [edited] And don't pretend you don't like porn, or promise to stop watching it. Because if you like watching porn, you're not going to give it up for a prudish woman any more than you can pray-the-gay-away at bible camp. And if you've been lying about it, you'll only hurt your girl when she eventually finds your stash. And she will. They do. Always.
Harden the [edited] up:
"Honey I like porn. If you like porn, we can watch it together. If not, I'll watch it alone. It doesn't mean you're not enough for me, I just like watching porn. I know you'll understand, because you're a stable human-being with a function ego who knows her self-worth".
Keep up the good work!
This post was about helping your lady feel good about herself. Sure I like porn too and I want to watch it too from time to time but if my girlfriend had a real problem with it and it made her feel insecure about herself I would stop doing it. Surely porn can't be more important to you than the happiness of your girlfriend or wife. If so, then you fail at being the man and knight that your lady deserves.
I'm sorry, but have you ever met an actual woman?
As far as the mental and emotional support, it seems like that should come from both sides of the relationship. Just as a woman should want a man rather than a boy, I want a woman rather than a girl. I would refuse to get in a relationship with a female who lacks fundamental independence.
Regarding pornography, it seems to me that serious disagreements about it may indicate a deeper cultural incompatibility between two people. Agreement on sexual issues are quite important for the success of a relationship.
Personally, my fiancée and I have used pornography when distance intervenes, when moods do not align, or when one person is awake and the other asleep. It makes the whole processes of solo sexual relief easier, more enjoyable, and generally more efficient. I would be unlikely to get involved with a person who had severe issues with pornography.
This should be a real flag-raiser. SOs that feel insecure because of a simple thing as this usually have worse mental instabilities that might reveal themselves only after months and years. Instabilities that could, and often do, lead to a life lived completely after the rules of a woman that gradually changes from beloved to psychic vampire.
Nothing wrong with making your SO feel good. This, however, must not lead to self-abandonment. A real man should not ashamed of what he likes just because it is deemed inappropriate by his peers or his SO has mental problems.
I am not getting into the whole porn debate, except to say that I do agree with the article.
I do agree that chances of of physical protection may be less for some, but it is a reality for all. You never know where someone desperate and violent may be these days, and it is the man's responsibility to protect others.
A small amount of research would have told you what it is to be a knight, living according to simple principles, protecting the weak, telling the truth, believing in honour, among other right livign principles.
I am so disappointed with where this blog is going. Being a man is not about keeping your woman happy, it is about being what you stand for.
My partner can do whatever she likes and I will support her in it because she is an adult and can make her own mind up.
It is not for me to determine what is good for her, that is patronising and small minded.
Worrying about how other people are developing takes ones mind of the important question...."How can I be more impeccable?" and encourages you to be the worst of all things....a hypocrite.
Who is guarding the media sources we are open to...and how do we know they are harmful without us reading them...and who protects us?
"Attend the beam in thine own eye before the mote in they neighbours".
Wise words indeed.
As long as both partners understand that, I don't see that watching porn has to be a no-no for a woman's self-esteem.
But I will agree that a woman can never hear her partner say she's beautiful too often. Really, it's amazing how far that goes -- it's a mood booster and strengthens her confidence in the relationship.
The idea that real men use porn is a myth that absolutely needs debunking. There's a great new book on the subject, called "Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity" by Robert Jensen that every reader of this blog should check out.
To Brett and Kay:
Your post has so many strengths, but I don't like that you're encouraging a sort of "father-knows-best" attitude. Women don't need to be "steered" by their men--what are we, cattle? Forget about being overprotective and directive. A willingness to engage in honest, open conversations, to strive always for good communication, is the marker of man who's truly confident in his relationship.
Porn is bad. I've seen it do a lot more damage than good.
On the subject of ethics vs. morals. I'm reminded of this quote from Mark Twain (a man), “It is curious - curious that physical courage should be so common in the world, and moral courage so rare.”
My advice would be to watch BETTER porn. There is a lot of really good alternaporn out there, not done in the fake LA-style bimbo porn. I find Hungarians are really good at putting realistic women (and men) in porn; real boobs, intense eye contact, reeeaallly hot. But they still look good so you're turned on by it. No one wants to see anything TOO real. Good lighting and camera filters can be a godsend ;-)
Nice to see, though, that the average British man thinks the average British woman is a dress size smaller than she is, since women seem to want to drop a two sizes. In other words, he thinks she's closer to their shared ideal than she is, and after all, this is ALL about what happens in the mind.
I would also add - maybe even more important than protecting wives or girlfriends from unrealistic physical ideals of femininity is protecting DAUGHTERS, who likely have a less developed ability to be critical about what the media presents them with. Teach them to do so. Model it for them, and for sons as well.
As to all the people that believe porn is destroying our culture or anything like that, I could not disagree more. Sure there are some people out there with addictions to porn or who's lives have been destroyed by porn. But that's true of almost anything. Ask yourself these questions:
Is masturbation wrong? Is it really so different if you use your own imagination or some images flashing by on screen? Where do we draw the line? What if you're aroused by classical art? What about written erotica? Is it healthier to actively fantasize about your partners friend or watch a video of a complete stranger? If porn is unacceptable for men are sex toys unacceptable for women?
No matter how sexual your relationship is, there will almost always be a need in some people for self-release. I think some self-release is perfectly healthy and anything you use to help you is equally healthy as long as you don't abuse it.
"men are physically stronger than women."
I have always been just about as strong as the average man. My husband is about 10% stronger in his upper body, but NO ONE can compete with my legs. I pity the fool who comes near my thighs uninvited.
As anyone in martial arts can tell you, it isn't always the more strength that 'wins'.
@Hayden-If that's true, why don't marital arts tournaments pit men against women?
I think what we need to understand is the spirit of what the authors are saying. I think they are discussing the importance of mutual respect (correct me if I'm wrong). All of these behaviours represent respect for the woman in the relationship. I think that we as women have similar responsibilities to our men, but this site is called "The Art of Manliness", not "The Art of Femininity" or whatever else. I think the advice about steering your partner away from negative friends is truly good advice. As much as I would want to keep my man clear of women who tear him down or men who get him flaming drunk every night (or similar), he would want to steer me away from women or men who criticize me or tear me down. In a lot of ways, women especially can use the help to avoid negative influences from friends. We tend to feel more obligation to spend time with people, whether we enjoy the time spent or not, so having our partner there to say, "Oh, actually hun, could I talk to you about something?" or "I really want you to meet so-and-so" or in other ways giving us an out can be helpful. It can't become an issue of control (ie, him deciding that he gets to choose who I talk to), but having that support is something I would certainly appreciate.
As for the porn issue, I completely agree with the article. I think it is unhealthy for a relationship, the same way that daydreaming about a coworker (or similar) is unhealthy. Maybe nothing will ever happen, but it makes you more and more curious about this unknown entity and less and less curious/interested in the known person who is sharing your life.
Thanks for the article!
Brett, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!
I was comparing brute strength to the use of someone's force against them in martial arts tactics, not martial arts against martial arts. This is absolutely ridiculous just because you feel you need to prove a point.
And, by the way, as someone who has been the 'victim' of an attempted mugging - I STOPPED THAT ATTACKER THROUGH SHEER FORCE OF WILL AND A LITTLE BIT OF CRAZY. IT NEVER CAME TO BLOWS.
You are fast losing my respect.
Bravo, you nailed it 100%. Relationships are most definitely about mutual respect and of course women will try to steer their men to be their best, just as men will try to steer their women to be their best.
Thanks for stopping by Tara-it's so refreshing when readers are astute enough to really "get it."
I'm not sure why you're upset here. You made the claim that you are as strong as the average man, so if that is true, the question naturally follows as to why men and women do not compete against each other in things like athletics.
"As anyone in martial arts can tell you, it isn’t always the more strength that ‘wins’."
Which, by the way, is still true!
As for me being as strong as the average man, it isn't the 'average man' that competes in sports competitions. You are talking about the everyday man 'protecting' the everyday woman.
Your response was, frankly, insulting and misleading as to the core issue of the point.
@Brett: thanks for the article, and sorry you're running afoul of so much offensitivity. (Or not. You can handle it.)
--
When I was engaged, we went to a workshop, and we were asked to introduce each other and say something we liked about the other. She said, "He won't let me get down on myself."
It hurts me a little to say I do, sometimes. Sometimes I just don't *know* that she's getting down on herself; she doesn't say, and I find out later. Sometimes I'm too hands-off, and it occurs to me later to say, "No! I don't like hearing people say bad things about my honey, even if it's my honey saying it!" This blog entry inspires me to remember.
As for the other things, it's not very healthy to expect a boyfriend or husband to solve (or even alleviate) the self-esteem and empowerment issues for any girl. "Guarding" her against media influences and so-called "negative" friendships implies that she's somehow incapable of navigating her social reality. She was navigating that reality long before she met you. Standing up and speaking out *with* her against cultural norms and practices that discourage a healthy balance of power and mutual respect is a far better way to support your girlfriend.
You are very right about one thing: there's no such thing as too much when it comes to telling your girlfriend that you think she's beautiful and sexy. Hearing that never gets old!
I'm anti-porn. I'm a guy. I know, I know. Get over it guys. There's no way to justify porn use. It has no positive effects whatsoever, and there is plenty of research out there to suggest that porn is extremely harmful.
Men need to protect their women, wives and daughters. Women have every right to feel strong and powerful and empowered, but the fact remains that men (generally speaking) are stronger and faster - unless they don't want to be protected.
I think, however, that most women appreciate a man who will take care of them while still appreciating their strengths.
Hayden, you need to calm down just a bit. I have immense respect for you and your writing, but you and Brett are both talking past each other.
"
“As anyone in martial arts can tell you, it isn’t always the more strength that ‘wins’”
@Hayden-If that’s true, why don’t marital arts tournaments pit men against women?
"
Well the biggest issue here is that martial arts tournaments are an artificial means of recreating a fight. In a fight there are no rules. You can use techniques designed to actually damage as opposed to just dominate. If a street thug attacked you there wouldn't be a judge to disqualify you for attacking sensitive areas and there are absolutely no gloves or protective gear to protect his face (or anything else) when you slam a punch into it.
Contests and tournaments restrict what you can do so that all you have left are muscles. But when it's life and death there are no rules.
And trust me, as a martial artist I can say it's a lot more complex than just "kick him in the nuts!"
Annie was right about porn being fantasy. However, it's a selfish and warped fantasy. It is a blatant objectification of other persons, and it focuses on one's individual sexual impulses as an urge to be satisfied instead of a call to give of themselves completely to another. It is the fantasy of a young child that would eat candy for every meal to the detriment of his own good simply because it's what feels good at that moment. It's the fantasy of a juvenile, just discovering the changes in his body and not yet knowing what they're for.
I don't mean to attack individuals, but porn is pathetic. We're not made to get off by peeping into others' intimate moments (visually or literarily). Man up and learn how to love a woman by making a sacrifice. It's not about repression, it's about growing up and learning what we're made for instead of treating our sexuality as a toy. If your woman has the good sense to have a problem with your warped and selfish fantasy, don't make it her problem of not being "sexual" enough, whatever that means. All porn does is diminish sexuality and make it selfish. When this has occurred, even the moments of intimacy with another will only be mutual exploitation. If you doubt this is the standard of sexuality in our times, you need only look to the issues surrounding it - contraception, abortion, IVF, eugenics, etc. How much will we manipulate and objectify other persons for our own pleasure?
I know you said you don't mean to attack individuals, but that's really all you're doing there.
"Sexuality is not primarily about pleasure. It is about loving intimacy between spouses and about making babies."
This is either a deeply religious view or a somewhat naive view that we should not stray from our evolutionary imperative.
If your statement is religiously motivated than I would encourage you to keep in mind that people have many different views on religion. Indeed some sects of Buddhism advocate sex as a form of meditation. And some people simply aren't religious.
But regardless, if your behavior is not harming yourself or anybody else, I don't see why you feel the need to judge it. If your partner doesn't share your sexual appetite and it really frustrates you than that is more than enough reason to not be in a relationship with that person. If nothing else, it's probably indicative that there are other things in your relationship that frustrate you.
Self-sacrifice is all well and good, but if you completely deny the things you want you're going to cause yourself some serious psychological damage. Would you deny yourself food when you were hungry?
What were we "made" for? And by whom?
Pat
To your question about being hungry, refer back to my post. I'm not advocating repression. That is unhealthy. My response is that pornography has no "nutrition" (to use your analogy) and is in fact harmful. I'm calling men to expand their tastes beyond twinkies. This isn't repression. It's a call to sanity(i.e. health)
To your comment about naivete or religious opinions, I'll leave it to your judgment which side is distorted in a world that separates intercourse from unity and reproduction. It seems like a natural connection to me.
Mike - We were made for love (i.e. intimacy and self-gift, not just pleasure) . I of course have an opinion for "by whom" also, but I'll leave that out of this discussion.
Thanks for your comments, guys.
Based on this the comment regarding porn was totally consistent with the articles title, "Becoming a 21st century Knight."
Chivalry was something that was never rooted in a secular world view. Knights existed in a faith filled Europe. Not all knights lived the the virtues that this faith implied, but they still had the ideal to strive for or fall from. Never the less this knighthood would have had fundamental issues with the Darwinian, secular, atheistic views of many of the comments.
I'm not judging the previous comments of others but simply saying that the effort of this article was to be a modern day knight and this would necessitate fidelity to ones vows. This fidelity in the Judeo-Christian world has always included acts both mental and physical.
...why do i feel like i just placed my head on a chopping block...
My fiance's appearance is a source of constant insecurity to her. Between the acne and the 20 lbs of jiggle, she is convinced that I find her unattractive. Nevermind that I've turned down offers from women of a more "appealing" persuasion for her, or that I constantly bombard her with affection and tell her how beautiful she is. This insecurity is closely tied to the general desire to better oneself, which is admirable, but in this case gone horribly wrong. You can not win this battle simply by convincing her she is good enough already. Instead, remark on improvements she has made in other non-physique areas. She can focus on improving herself in other healthier ways.
Also, a side-note, every man WILL at some point be called upon to physically protect SOMEONE. It may be your lady, a friend, or strangers (if you are the sort who would willingly do so). The infrequency of the need does not permit the inability to meet the challenge when it does arise. My love and I would be in a very different place right now if the ability to draw a machete and ward off would-be rapists was lost on me.
I consider the porn comment in the article as bad advice, but to be fair, if you can tell the difference between bad advice and good advice - then you don't need advice!
The whole "steering" thing takes the article WAY off track. I get the point, but horrible choice of words. I read that out loud to the better half and she was looking for blood. A strong, independent and interdependent woman takes great offense to this.
Both of these points could have been explained MUCH better by using the "communication" approach. Communicate with her on how you feel about porn and how you feel about negativity.
Horrible choice of words Kevin. Far better to say "MY strong independent and interdependent woman..." for I consider myself all of those qualities and yet I also had a hand in crafting in this piece. Both husband and wife steer each other, which happens by "communicating." What other way for steering exists for a gentleman?
Keep up the great work, this sick society needs more real men, and real women of course
I understand your intentions and I apologize for making the conversation a bit more confrontational. I do disagree with your contention that porn or masturbation has no "nutrition".
Porn, at its heart, is nothing more than entertainment. It has as much value as a sitcom or a soap opera or a story or a video game. If used too much any of the above can ruin your life and make it hard for you to remember what is important. If used appropriately they are nothing more than a way of allowing your mind some time to relax from the stress of the day.
And masturbation is very little more than scratching an itch. Again, if you scratch too much, you'll get a rash, but if you do it occasionally it can be very satisfying and not in the least bit harmful.
Yes, porn can give one a warped view of the world and this is bad. But any creative work can. Just because porn is not something we would actively discuss in public places or in certain company does not mean it should be treated or viewed any differently in terms of virtue. Just perhaps more privately.
About the porn, those who partake of that trash can justify it all they want, but porn exploits human beings, Would anyone except a complete scumbag want his daughter to be in porn actress? Think about it. Those people in the videos are SOMEONE'S sons and daughters. Only someone truly desperate for money--likely due to drug addiction or some other horrible circumstance--would even be in porn. It's terribly sad when you think about it.
As for the statement “As anyone in martial arts can tell you, it isn’t always the more strength that ‘wins
As for the statement “As anyone in martial arts can tell you, it isn’t always the more strength that wins", That's true, BUT RARELY. If you put up a 220 lb., strong, ruthless street fighter up against a 125 lb. black belt, I'll put my money on the thug.
The idea that a puny little runt can take on giant bullies with a little martial arts training is a myth.
And porn doesn't help. If one can't see the ogling and masturbating to some stranger's daughter is disrespectful to one's wife and all the women in one's life, then one has no idea what it means to love a woman, or how to regard women as whole persons, not just physical objects for sexual manipulation.
The people and activities in a porn video or picture are as fake as the creatures adorning the cover of Cosmo or Vogue.
And...
The ability to fight is a minor attribute. The smarter course is to avoid situations where violence is an acceptable or necessary option. And it is possible to stay in 'safe' situations, with a little planning and common sense.
And now some science.
When a woman looks in the mirror and thinks she sees flaws - weight or shape - there is a reason for it. The brain tends to reject the mirror image as being unreliable. Scientists are divided on the reason for this phenomenon, but it does exist.
However, almost all women will accept a photograph or video of themselves as being accurate. This is particularly true if the results are instant, like a digital photo being displayed or printed.
If your woman has body image issues that you think are distorted or inaccurate, take a few full body photos and show her the results. Obviously, the less clothing she wears, the better the results will be. She will probably be astounded to see what she "really" looks like.
By the way: delete any such private pictures immediately. Don't abuse her trust.
OK, i think a few of you missed the point with the porn issue. I am going to try to be as impartial as possible.
First the author was not saying anything against porn. I think all he meant was it can make some women slightly insecure. And that compacted with the rest of the messages the media send to women about being thin is horrible for self-esteem.
As with all general advice, you need to take all the extenuating circumstances into account. here are some things you should think about.
1. Is porn even an issue in your relationship?
2. How does your significant other feel about porn? You might be surprised to find some women like it as much as men do, and some men find it completely useless.
3. Why do you feel the need to view porn? Some men say it is like a substitute, for when their 'Lady' is unavailable.
Now for you people that immediately saw the advice about porn and jumped all over it attacking or defending as it would suit you. The author said nothing either way about the matter of porn being good or evil he only mentioned that it could be detrimental to your lady's mental well being. I don't think it is fair to say "I watch porn so deal with it woman" nor is it fair for a 'Lady' to demand her 'Lord' stop watching porn without so much as a discussion.
now i am going to be biased:
All you people spouting "facts" about porn perhaps you should do some research before you make assumptions about the people involved in it. not all people in porn are addicted to drugs or desperate for money. that is mostly seen in prostitutes.
All I know is that
1. Chuck Norris can beat up anybody
2. Chuck Norris thinks all women are beautiful
3. Chuck Norris thinks porn is bad
If Chuck Norris thinks it, so do I.
As a single man, I know that porn is a product designed for guys like me. I can't really see me watching it when I have a beautiful woman around me all the time, and I could never quite figure out why guys in relationships bother with it. Why settle for watching it when you got the REAL THING?
Your responses to Hayden read a bit snarkily and not so gentlemanly as one might expect. Why be so defensive?
One might argue that men and women don't compete against each other in sports because the average man couldn't handle being beaten by "a girl." :) But in all seriousness, I have actually read scholarly articles on competitive sports that make some very interesting points about men and women being on par with one another, but separated for no accountable reason. And they're often not just separated; the rules are changed (say, the size of the court, etc.) so that direct comparisons between men and women's athletic achievements become impossible.
From the reading I've done, a good many female athletes strongly object to this practice and would prefer to play their sports on the same terms as men do.
I look forward to the day when we get past the separation of so many sports according to sex!
@Kate and Kevin:
Kevin is right--the word choice regarding "steering" is really out of line.
In response to his comment, Kate said, "Both husband and wife steer each other, which happens by 'communicating.' What other way for steering exists for a gentleman?"
It is not terribly uncommon for men to take an authoritative, man-of-the-house attitude that involves making rules and regulations. These men can be gentlemanly in all sorts of respects, but simultaneously feel that, as "gentlemen," it is their right/duty/obligation/privilege to be "head of household."
Of course they would "communicate" their wishes to their spouses. This doesn't mean the communication is two-way.
And I think that' s the heart of the problem with your use of "steering." Steering doesn't imply a two-way process. When I steer my car, do I have a discussion with it before turning the wheel? No.
Connotations are important here.
That said, I do overall agree with the spirit of your post. I think a little clarification would go a long ways.
To add to the porn discussion: I have a fairly healthy self-image of myself as a woman, I'm not perfect, but I'm certainly not inadequate. Yet even I know that I don't measure up to the sex stars in porn. If I found out my husband was watching porn, I would be devastated. His looking to porn for sexual pleasure would mean that I am not good enough for his pleasure, that I'm inadequate as his wife and as a woman. This is the same message that the media sends women everyday, and when their SO watch porn, they are sending them the same message, but it hits (most) every woman her heart when it comes from that special someone.
Even if I fail at my own standard, at least I'm aware there is a standard to strive for. But the people in these posts would rather tear down the ideal of a relationship than admit to how far short they fall. Pathetic.
As for the competition between men and women, I find it funny that Hayden took such offense simply because Brett bantered with her like he would with a guy. Wasn't she arguing for equality? = )
Give me a break Sky. Academia likes to say a lot of things that don't transfer over to the real world. Have you seen the performance of the women who have tried to compete with men at auto racing, golf and ice hockey (only goalies as far as I know).
You also don't seem to be for equality when you say that women should be allowed to compete with men. As we have seen in the media, if girls are allowed to play in a boys league, that is equality. If boys are allowed to play in a girls league, that is unfair.
In reading the comments I am amazed by how many haters and critics there are. Porn is one of the most destructive forces in the world today. Keep speaking out against it, this reader will continue to cheer you on!
I can't believe how so many comments take one line out of your entire message and try to twist it into something you didn't say then write a whole essay about it. The fact that men are physically stronger than women isn't a controversial statement people, come on! Get over yourselves.
Anyway, don't let it steer you away from your original objective in creating this blog. You are doing a great job, this blog is going in the right direction.
I would disagree with some of the beginning paragraph:
"Of course these days, the danger of marauding enemies or ferocious beasts has all but waned. Sure, a man must be ready to protect his home should a villain invade it or protect his lady in a street fight. But the days of men universally being both citizen and solider have passed. Yet a man’s role in protecting the women in his life has not ceased. While men are no longer called to be warriors against physical attack, we now have the duty to protect our women from emotional harm, to keep safe the hearts and esteem of the ladies in our lives."
I am a Marine. I go to war to protect my wife and son. I think that sometimes people think of knights as men that only battled fabled beast and each other for fun. I believe I know what the author was trying to convey, I just wish we wouldn't ignore our modern "knights", as it were.
The other thing I disagree with is the part about porn. My wife and I have been going to a marriage counselor for a large part of our 8 years being married together. Every counselor, EVERYONE of them would agree that it is not the job of the man in the relationship to "make the woman feel good about herself." If your lady has a self image problem. Guess what, she needs to work on it. You can be supportive without having to alter activities that have nothing to do with her. My wife enjoy each other immensely. We also from time to time enjoy watching porn, together and on our own. Once you make a thing taboo, then it becomes more attractive and therefore a problem. If your lady would like you to watch porn less, all she really has to do is be accepting of you and your sexual fantasies and you will be drawn to her far more than porn. It is this idea that "one woman for me, and the missionary position is all I need, thanks" that has so screwed up married sex life for so long. It's marriage for God's sake, have fun with it. Play games, tease each other, talk about your fantasies with each other and learn to relax. It's SEX, not some ultimate act that God watches over with a score sheet, penciling in points for how bored you both can make each other.
P.S. Love the site, just my two cents.
@Matt-I have to agree with you regarding Sky's comments. There are currently sports where women and men can compete against each other like golf (which is hardly the most physically demanding of all the sports) and yet women are not up to par (pun intended) with the men. You don't even have to have men and women compete head to head to prove this point, simply comparing the fastest times of men and women in the same event in say swimming and track will easily make the point.
@Marine-We didn't mean to overlook the very real existence of modern knights. We were just making the point that "the days of men universally being both citizen and solider have passed." All men used to be called on to fight and protect their community. These days it is an elite, voluntary group. We thus simply wished to express the idea that even if you aren't called upon to physically protect those you love, you still have the duty to emotionally protect them. Brett and I both have enormous respect and gratitude for those who serve in the military and we have done a couple posts honoring these men:
http://artofmanliness.com/2008/07/24/manly-sacr...
http://artofmanliness.com/2008/03/25/what-happe...
Regarding your point on:
"Every counselor, EVERYONE of them would agree that it is not the job of the man in the relationship to “make the woman feel good about herself." If your lady has a self image problem. Guess what, she needs to work on it."
We agree with this and tried to make that clear in the post:
"Let me be clear about something-at the end of the day, a man cannot make a woman feel good about herself; a woman’s self-esteem is under her control and something only she can fix and heal."
A man can't "make" his woman feel good about herself, but he can certainly help along the process.
At any rate, I appreciate your comments. Thanks for reading.
Husband and wife are there to help each other, support each other, and yes, provide guidance to each other. I think this is what you meant. Steering implies a parenting function. My wife hates anything remotely close to this and says it is like manipulation. Of course, this is not what your article meant, but some may perceive it this way.
In any event, like Cory said, let's not talk past each other. The article is a good one and it did what it was supposed to do - develop the discussion in a way that helps and entertains. The "steering" word is only semantics...I like the point it was trying to make.
Sometimes people lack the capacity to help themselves. A man should protect their lady from self-destructive habits (drugs, alcohol, money, gossip, plastic surgery, etc.)
It's such a great thing that you stand up for true manly values in these days of feminists and cowards. (Seriously, I'm sick of cowardly men. They're all around me, but I'm sick of them. Be a real man! Defend the ladies and quit with the hook-ups!)
I am a Bible-believing Christian and this site is quite close to my values most of the time. I know AoM is not overtly religious, but I also can find it interesting to see something from the "secular" side that supports some real truth for a change.
About pornography: I heartily agree with you. I firmly believe it is wrong morally (sexual sin is nothing less than a scourge), but besides that, I agree with your reasons of being against it.
Bravo, good man, bravo!
Spencer
Spencer
And I think... after reading all these damn ridiculous comments... most people lost the point of this article, everyone is so focused on the porn issue. I don't mind it, I don't mind if my boyfriend watches it when I'm not around... but really, if you value a video of people screwing more than you value being with an actual person... somethings just... wrong with you. o_O
-with the added fun of usualy having story lines involving a woman in a boring relationship being sexually swept off her feet by another man ...
I cannot believe how many people are anti-porn. I have always been of the opinion that masturbation is a healthy way to explore one's sexuality, and porn is a tool with which one can do that exploration. I am a female who loves watching porn, reading erotica and pleasuring myself, either alone or with my boyfriend.
Even if I didn't enjoy watching porn myself, why would I deny my boyfriend his right to explore his own sexuality through masturbating to porn? I'm secure enough in our relationship not to be intimidated by some girl in a video. It's not like he's actually sleeping with the girl.
Outside of actually having sex with another person, I believe people in a committed relationship should be able to do whatever they want to get off--whether it's watching porn, going to a strip club or even flirting with another person. I suppose it helps that my boyfriend and I completely trust, respect and love one another, but I don't get jealous when he looks at another woman. He's only human, and I know that no matter what, he'll be coming home with me at the end of the night. Besides, I check out other men just as much as he checks out other women!
Despite being pro-porn and not minding if my boyfriend looks at other ladies, I tend to agree with this article. Most women are incredibly insecure in their looks, and having a partner who insists that they are undeniably gorgeous just the way they are is crucial to having a healthy relationship.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the gestures, and certainly you would want to do your best to keep somebody you love from self-loathing, but the way this article is written makes it sound like this will be a quick cure-all for self-esteem issues.
Regarding the porn issue, I could care less what your stance on porn is, just don't go about calling those who watch it and enjoy it "filthy," "dirty," or "immoral." You don't know me personally nor do you have any clue as to where my morals lie. I don't see any pro-porn people on here accusing you of being prude, because there is just no way to fully understand your views without personally knowing you. I find porn to be an erotic release, enjoyable fodder to one's sex life. Never has it had any destructive effects on me or my boyfriend, if anything it gets our creative juices flowing. If you are unable to seperate "real life" from "fantasy" then porn should be the least of your worries. The entire entertainment business is a means for one to escape reality and if done in moderation, I see no harm.
I get it, Brett, but I feel like you're missing out on a lot of what existence has to offer by shutting down your ability to experience or consider anything outside of your two-person world. I believe in a supportive, loving relationship, but you have to be wary of getting stuck in a positive feedback loop, where you start to justify and believe in things only because you have this person so close to you backing you up. I recommend watching William Friedkin's "Bug." I'd be interested to see how you integrate the message of that film into your pastiche of manliness.
The main points to keep in mind are respect and self control. I LOVE my boyfriend, he is my world, but come on, it is completely unreasonable of me to expect him to never admire another female's form. Does that make me insecure? Hell no! He is with ME, he respects me for more than a nice rack and tight ass, thats the difference between me and the other girl. She is merely sexual eye candy whereas I am the whole package. Trust is key in a relationship, and honestly I view women who don't allow their men to "browse" as not have complete trust in them.
Regarding the porn, who cares? I had a good chuckle at all the people claiming porn ruins lives. If providing ideas for future sex-capades and foddering sexual fantasies is considered "destroying lives" then sign me up! Like Laura said, people have been using entertainment as a healthy way to escape reality for decades! If you are threatened by your boyfriend/husband watching porn, then honey you have some serious issues with seperating fantasy from reality.
And I'm not sure who said it, but I don't think all porn actresses are crack addicts and dirt poor. A great many of them, however, were sexually abused as children or as young women. It upsets me deeply that people get off on the damage done to these women. I'm not saying by any means that anyone who watches pornography is a sexual predator or anything remotely like that, but by and large, girls who are treated well and raised in a healthy way do not grow up to star in porn.
The point is, in my experience most men think of p0rn this way. They laugh and joke to each other about how weird the girl looks. Most women I've talked to about it seem to agree. So watch a little p0rn together, people, and recognize that neither of you sees it as some kind of ideal. Men don't want a plastic slut any more than women want Ron Jeremy. However, it can be a source of ideas to spice up your own sex life, and can go a long way towards breaking down some of those inhibitions we all have.
Anyway, good article. I hope I treat my girl like this. She is truly a beautiful woman :)
Just sayin'.
I'm sure it's nice if you know someone who will enjoy your porn with you, but frankly? Anything you should be willing to watch should be something you'd rather do with your partner.
"but nothing says “I wish you were like that” more than pornography!"
I dunno, I'd think that actually pointing at a girl on the street and saying "I wish you were more like that" would say it more than pornography. Sorry, just had to be a shit disturber :-)
The point with the pornography that I think people are missing is that there is a big difference between watching porn instead of being with your significant other and watching porn with them, or while they are away. I watch porn with my bf all the time, we both enjoy it. I let my bf watch porn while I'm at work or if I'm not in the mood, what do I care? I would however be upset did he choose to jack it to porn when I am available and willing. There-in lies the difference. Not to toot my own horn either but I'm a lot better looking than most girls in porn, so I hardly become defensive or assume my boyfriend prefers them to me. Personally I watch porn for the visual sexual stimulation, not to check out the ladies and compare them to myself. Most of the time I don't even look at their faces nor does any sort of physical beauty register in my mind, I'm into it for the sex!
Here is an interesting article in today's New York Times that you might want to check out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/22/sports/olympi...
Some particularly noteworthy excerpts:
"Women are slower than men in running, in swimming, in cycling. Whether it is a 100-meter race on the track or a marathon, a 200-meter butterfly swim or a 10-kilometer marathon swim, the pattern holds."
"And even though some scientists once predicted that women would eventually close the gender gap in elite performances — it was proposed that all they needed was more experience, better training and stronger coaching — that idea is now largely discredited, at least for Olympic events."
"Testosterone, Levine said, gives men what he calls a bigger and better-fueled engine. Their skeletal muscles, which do the work during exercise, are bigger. And their hearts, which provide fuel for the work, are bigger, too."
"Testosterone also changes the makeup of muscles. Women, with their lower testosterone levels, end up with a smaller proportion of Type 2 muscle fibers, which are used to generate speed and power and strength."
Porn WILL ruin your relationship or marriage. It's a counterfeit substitute for the real thing and will contaminate the bond you have with your wife/girlfriend. It's a tough habit to kick, but - shouldn't that be an indicator of how contaminating it is?
Please do be a real man and stop watching pornography.
you are really unrefined, to say the least. do you actually believe any woman who respects herself and has dignity would ever stay around you for long? you mention ego...as if you even comprehend what ego really is about. your ego is out of control screaming like a brat with a dirty diaper. actually, I don't want to waste another minute with this reply, but I thought you should know that yes, I understand you need porn. because that's all you get.