Art of Manliness - Latest Comments in Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Joe — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:29:34 -0000

@Lee - That is just fine. But it doesn't quite work for those who suffered significant complication from it. It happens more often than you think.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Eric — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:09:14 -0000

It seems that the people who are in favor of infant circumcision tend to be women and circumcised men. We rarely ever hear of any uncut men in favor of infant circumcision. I think that says enough about the validity (or lack thereof) of so-called "health benefits" of routine infant circumcision.

Some women may prefer a circumcised penis because it looks cleaner. In my opinion, that's no different from a man saying a vagina is dirty. We need to have a mature attitude about genitalia and realize that what is natural is normal. If nature/God had intended men not to have foreskin, then men wouldn't be born with foreskin.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Bob — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:33:15 -0000

this is what the Butchers actually do...
Circumcision
What Is Lost?
http://mothersagainstcirc.o...
"To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants
should be given accurate and unbiased information."
Circumcision Policy Statement
American Academy of Pediatrics
March 1, 1999
When a baby boy's normal intact penis is circumcised, this is what is lost -- forever:
*1. The foreskin, which comprises up to 50% (sometimes more) of the mobile skin system of the penis. If unfolded and spread out flat, the average adult foreskin would measure about 15 square inches (the size of a 3 x 5-inch index card). This highly specialized tissue normally covers the glans and protects it from abrasion, drying, callusing (keratinization), and contaminants of all kinds. The effect of glans keratinization on human sexuality has never been studied.
*2. The frenar band of soft ridges -- the primary erogenous zone of the male body. Loss of this delicate belt of densely innervated, sexually responsive tissue reduces the fullness and intensity of sexual response.
*3. The foreskin's "gliding action"-- the hallmark mechanical feature of the normal, natural, intact penis. This non-abrasive gliding of the penis in and out of itself within the vagina facilitates smooth, comfortable, pleasurable intercourse for both partners. Without this gliding action, the corona of the circumcised penis can function as a one-way valve, scraping vaginal lubricants out into the drying air and making artificial lubricants essential for pleasurable intercourse.
*4. Thousands of coiled fine-touch mechanoreceptors called Meissner's corpuscles, the most important sensory component of the foreskin, encapsulated Vater-Pacinian cells, Merkel's cells, nociceptors, and branches of the dorsal nerve and perineal nerve. Altogether, between 10,000 and 20,000 specialized erotogenic nerve endings of several types, which can feel slight motion and stretch, subtle changes in temperature, and fine gradations in texture are lost.
*5. The frenulum, the highly erogenous V-shaped web-like tethering structure on the underside of the glans; frequently amputated along with the foreskin, or severed, either of which destroys its function and potential for pleasure.
6. Approximately half of the temperature-sensitive smooth muscle sheath called the dartos fascia.
7. The immunological defense system of the soft mucosa. This produces both plasma cells that secrete immunoglobulin antibodies and antibacterial and antiviral proteins such as the pathogen-killing enzyme lysozyme.
8. Lymphatic vessels, the loss of which reduces the lymph flow within that part of the body's immune system.
9. Estrogen receptors - the purpose of which is not yet fully understood and needs further study.

*10. The apocrine glands of the inner foreskin, which produce pheromones - nature's powerful, silent, invisible behavioral signals to potential sexual partners. The effect of their absence on human sexuality has never been studied.
*11. Sebaceous glands, which lubricate and moisturize the foreskin and glans, normally a protected internal organ - like the tongue or vagina.
12. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, a first line component of the body's immune system in a whole penis.
13. The pink to red to dark purple natural coloration of the glans. The connective tissue which protectively fuses the foreskin and glans together while the penis develops is ripped apart during circumcision, wounding the glans and the foreskin remnant, leaving them raw and subject to infection, scarring, pitting, shrinkage, and eventual discoloration.
*14. Some of the penis length and penis circumference because its double-layered wrapping of loose and usually overhanging foreskin is now missing, making the circumcised penis truncated and thinner than a full-sized intact penis.
*15. Several feet of blood vessels, including the frenular artery and branches of the dorsal artery. The loss of this rich vascularity interrupts normal blood flow to the shaft and glans of the penis, damaging the natural function of the penis and altering its development.
16. Every year boys lose their entire penises from circumcision accidents and infections. They are then "sexually reassigned" by castration and "transgender surgery," and expected to live their lives as "females."
17. Every year many boys lose their lives from the complications of circumcision, a fact the billion-dollar-a-year circumcision industry in the U.S. obscures and ignores.
18. By encoding violence on the brain the infant's bonding with its mother is disrupted, with indications that the innate sense of trust in intimate physical contact is inhibited or lost, and in its place a sense of betrayal is instilled in the infant.
(*19. Although never studied scientifically, contemporary evidence suggests that a penis without its foreskin lacks the capacity for the subtle neurological "cross-communication" that occurs only during contact between mucous membranes and which contributes to the experience of sexual pleasure. Amputating an infant boy's multi-functional foreskin is a "low-grade neurological castration" [Immerman], which diminishes the intensity of the entire sexual experience for both the circumcised male and his partner.)

*Loss of each of these items reduces sexual pleasure, gratification, and fulfillment.
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W.C., "A Proposed Relationship Between Circumcision and Neural Reorganization," J of Genetic Psych, 1998.
Immerman, R. S. and Mackey, W. C., "A biocultural analysis of circumcision," Social Biology 1998;4:265-275

Compiled by Gary L. Harryman glharryman@aol.com
4/6/99 - Last Revision 5/25/99

See Also: Glossary
Return to Mothers Against Circumcision Homepage

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Lee — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:15:33 -0000

Honestly, I really don't care either way on this topic. I am circumsised and have friends who are and are not. Heck, I remember one night a bunch of us were sitting around a campfire when someone broached the topic as they ran into the protesters of circumsision. None of us had even heard that this was such a big deal. We talked and laughed about it, listedn as we were told the reasons against circumsision and honestly still didn't care.

The tip of my penis does not define me as a man. I can still get hard, I still have immense pleasure and can pleasure my woman. There is not a single part of me that does not work and that I do not enjoy. I am not less of a man and I think nothing less of my father.

Sorry, but if you are one of those that can only define yourself by whether you have some skin over your penis or not, you really aren't much of a man to begin with.

I just can't care about this topic.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Robert Samson — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:27:27 -0000

"Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind."

You do know that these studies claiming this were seriously flawed, and that this reduction is not seen in the real world--in fact, the opposite? One needs to critically analyze any claim for a benefit for circumcision. Over the 100+ years of these claims of benefits, and not a single one has stood. This track record speaks volumes.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Mork — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:19:56 -0000

Just a point on the argument about 'looking like your dad.' I'm circumcised and my dad is too. But if I have a son, I don't think I will circumcise him. I don't feel a need to have him look like me in that way. And even if I did, that wouldn't seem like a good enough reason. It's part of parenting to respond to your kid's questions with age-appropriate answers. So when a son asks a father why his dinger looks different, the father should tell him the age-appropriate truth. Like, "I was born in a country where they do that..." Or "Back then it was normal to do that, now it isn't so much." The kid will be on to other questions in no time, like why yours is hairy and his isn't. And then you give another age-appropriate answer to that. Incidently, I grew up in a country where I was the only circumcised boy around. I asked my dad about it and he told me, "They don't circumcise here as much as in America." That was good enough for me.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Eric — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:55:18 -0000

Regarding any studies that supposedly show that it's harder to get a disease when circumcised, I have to question that argument. I don't really see how removal of the foreskin would make it any harder to get HIV or penile cancer. If you're really concerned about getting a disease, you can use a condom, or don't have sex; I think removal of the foreskin is going a little too far.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Ian — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:40:13 -0000

Well I have a child on the way and my wife and I both agree if it is a boy he will be circumcised. Our basis for this was disease. The studies showing that it is harder to contract HIV just made up our mind.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

miss morgan potts — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:44:26 -0000

Though my current boyfriend is circumcised, I consider the procedure to be unnecessary and purely cosmetic. Just as female circumcision is rooted in tradition and outdated notions about sex (myths about masturbation, for example), so is male circumcision.

I've been with both circumcised and uncircumcised men, and cosmetically neither is more appealing than the other so long as it's clean. Performance is far more important than whether or not the foreskin is intact.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Guest — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:01:04 -0000

i am a filipino-american in my early 20's. as a filipino tradition boys are circumcised in their early adolescent years as a rites of passage into manhood. i honestly got caught up into the whole thing and when i was a teenager i had the procedure done.

i wish i didn't though. i feel a big part of me is missing. and it's so true about the sensitivity. and the more i think about why i did the process was all really pointless.

when i have sons i'm opting to not have them go through it.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

John R — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:39:56 -0000

I say this {like the old Purina Dog Chow commercial}

"Wonderbar!"
Being circumcised "makes me very happy" :)

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Bob — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:27:23 -0000

This is a email from a young fellow advising what had happened to him and the following email he sent to his father.
For all you people who circumcised their sons against the advice of every medical organisation in the world, but quite happy to run on the lies of circumcisers, I only hope your sons think so endearing of you when they are old enough to articulate it.
email 1..
as some of you may know, today is my 18th birthday. so a couple of
minutes ago i was unwrapping some presents. the first one was "i am
america and so can you" which i've been wanting to get. so i reached
for the second one and when i opened it i got the crap scared out of
me. out of some extremely weird coincidence they got me a book
entitled "foreskin's lament"... they have no idea about what i'm doing
or how much i resent them for doing what they did, so when i opened it
i started sweating and shaking like crazy. so i was wondering "have
they found out?" but no, they explained to me that it's a funny book
that they think i would like. i couldn't believe it but there it was.
i wanted to jump up and scream at them for even mentioning the word,
but instead i just came up to my room, and now here i am, in my room.
i just couldn't believe it.
i just sent my dad an email, he'll probably get it tomorrow at work.
here is what i said....................................

you and mom just went up the hill on a dogwalk, and i'm sitting here
and i decided to write this message. i'm tired of keeping this secret
from you and right now i don't know weather or not it's still a
secret. that book that you got me could have been a coincidence or it
could be you trying to tell me that you know what's wrong with me,
honestly i have no idea what it is. i've been trying to tell you since
i found out back in February but i've found myself completely unable
to do it. i found that it's easier to say it through an email and not
strait to your faces. so what is it that i'm talking about? well i'm
sure that you have figured it out already but i'll go ahead and say it
anyways. i found out that i was circumcised last February and i've
resented the two of you a little more every single day.

it completely destroyed me when i found out because i feel as if you
don't think of me as a person, instead i think you see me (or saw me)
as a pet that doesn't have any thoughts ideas or opinions of its own.
and that's why you said "yes" to that doctor 18 years ago, because you
thought that i wouldn't be able to make the decision myself. it's as
if you believed that my body belongs to you, and not me. as if you
thought that i don't have the right to make this life changing
decision myself because i am your property.

that's why i've been treating you the way i have for almost a year.
i'm sure you've noticed that i go out of my way to not be in the same
room as either of you, and how i treat you with as much disrespect as
i dare. i feel as if i can't trust anyone any more because the two
people that i trusted most in life turned out to be the ones that have
hurt me the most. i'm sure you've also noticed that i've been playing
video games a lot more than i used to, i find that it's the only way
for me to be able to release my anger and resentment for you. that's
right, this is the reason why i've been playing video games so much
and i think that without them i probably would have turned to drugs to
try to get rid of my problems. i'm not trying to make you feel bad or
anything, it's just the truth. this is how i've felt every day since i
found out. i can't get it out of my head, i'm thinking about it all
the time and it's driving me crazy. nobody (especially my age) should
ever have to go through what i'm going through. and i shouldn't have
to, i shouldn't be having this problem, i shouldn't have been
circumcised.

you spent about 2 to 300 dollars to have me circumcised, but i would
give anything to have it undone, anything. but i can't, it's a
permanent change that i got no say in even though my body should
belong to me and me alone, and i can't believe that out of all the
people in the world who had done it, it was the two of you. i
understand that you didn't think that i would intemperate it this way.
you were probably thinking that i should "look like dad" or something
like that, but i still resent you for it and i don't think i'll ever
be able to forgive you.

thank you for giving me that book, if you hadn't i probably would have
kept this to myself a lot longer and i probably would end up in an
even worse condition than i am in now. i still haven't told anyone >
i have some websites that i would like you to see. unfortunately gmail
isn't giving me the option to make links at the moment so you will
have to type them into the URL thing yourself (or copy and paste)

norm.org

http://www.notjustskin.org/...
http://www.notjustskin.org/...
http://www.notjustskin.org/...

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Bob — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 09:07:22 -0000

it is a parents right to do what they feel is best for their child. thats it. end of discussion
May I say something here to this outlandish statement......(from the Australian viewpoint)

Although a number of Australian jurisdictions have acted to outlaw femal genital cutting, equal protection under law has not been afforded to unconsenting minors who happen to boys. (However There is action being undertaken to bring this disparity to light through the discrimination legislation) In the light of Marions case(Department of Health and Community Services V JWB and SMB (1992) 175 CLR 218), it is now evident that even parents cannot provide legal consent for an irreversable, non therapeutic circumcision, Moreover, there are no medical indications for neonatal circumcision (Australian Association of Paediatric Surgeons, Guidelines for circumcision(1996).

Consequently, enforced or involuntary circumcision must now be considered as an assault causing grevious bodily harm (genital mutilation) Legal action is long overdue in Australia to protect the physical and sexual integrity of minors.

The general rule in English criminal law, and reflecting in other common law jurisdictions, is that any application of force, no matter how slight, is a prima facie an assault. (Consent serves as a defence to assault that do not inflict actual bodily harm.

Even in the absence of legislation specifically banning circumcision, those who assist in circumcision of a child without the patient's own fully informed consent are liable to prosecution. Accordingly to Price.

"Lawyers in common law Jurisdictions (England, The United States, Canada and Australia) have expressed the view that....non-therapeutic circumcision is, or at the very least is prima facie, a criminal assault...there has been no rebbuttal of that view.

In Queensland, the Queensland law reform Commission concluded that on a strict interpretation of the assault provisions of the Queensland criminal code, routine circumcision could be regarded as a criminal act. I believe that in other States this would be the same.

The Nuffield Committee stated:

Gratuitous injury, that is injury that is not undertaken in order to avoid destruction, damage or degradation, remains unaceptable. This point is sometimes blurred by an assumption that it is the therapeutic context which licences what would otherwise be injury. In fact it is more precisely the therapeutic intent rather than the therapeutic context that justifies the action that otherwise would be seen as injury...Gratuitous and in particular malicious injury of human beings, and specifically human tissue, will always be unnaceptable, especially when inflicted in a therapeutic context...Treatment given by those who are medical practicioners will be acceptable only if guided by a therapeutic intention..

Not withstanding this, some Australian medical doctors continue to benefit financially from Medicare's continued reimbursement of non-therapeutic genuital cutting. Some are demonstrably vehement about continuing mutilation, raising the questions as to their psychological motives.

The practice of male circumcision creates two kinds of men, those who enjoy genital integrity and those who do not. Some of those men who do not enjoy genital integrity have various emotional issues relating to their deprivation of a whole penis by traumatic operation.

Many circumcised doctors have an emotional need to defend their culture of origin and to rationalise their personal deprivation by the creation of medical literature asserting prophylactic benefits of circumcision. On the other hand , In my view their behaviour is rather suspiciously deviant.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Joe — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:57:29 -0000

@Dan - Why is it every time there is a circumcision discussion someone bring up abortion? I am sure there are people against circumcision on both sides of that issue. And one's position on one has nothing to do with another.

In any case, penile cancer really has nothing to do with circumcision, at least that is the position of the American Cancer Society (and has been for more than 10 years) http://tinyurl.com/ddzuk

" In the past, circumcision has been suggested as a way to prevent penile cancer. This suggestion was based on studies that reported much lower penile cancer rates among circumcised men than among uncircumcised men. However, most researchers now believe those studies were flawed because they failed to consider other risk factors, such as smoking, personal hygiene, and the number of sexual partners.

Most public health researchers believe that the risk of penile cancer is low among uncircumcised men without known risk factors living in the United States. Most experts agree that circumcision should not be recommended as a way to prevent penile cancer."

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Paul — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:48:43 -0000

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the people suggesting that male circumcision is a human rights issue and should be outlawed would be perfectly willing to make a decision to kill that same young male if he were on the other side of his mother's uterine wall. It's amazing how a short trip down a 10cm-wide birth canal changes human rights so drastically.

For the record, i'm circumcised, so are my sons, and i'm glad for it - the penile cancer figures alone should make it a no-brainer on the pro-circumcision side.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Will — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:56:22 -0000

I oppose circumcision. Primarily because it makes a permanent unnecessary change to a man's body without his say.
For the most part, I don't see why it's such an issue. There's nothing defective about the human body.

It's, quite frankly, BS that people still debate male circumcision like it's no big thing, while female circumcision is something that should be so obviously opposed.
Typical female circumcision involves removing part of the prepuce - which is the same material that would become the foreskin if the child had been born a male.
It covers the clitoris and is the "clitoral hood".

Also, the first article didn't mention that one of the reasons circumcision became very very popular is that it makes masturbation more difficult. Masturbation was long believed to cause retardation and a multitude of diseases.

Parents should have no right to alter a healthy child's body like this. Ever.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Ace V. — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:13:41 -0000

Wow, a lot of touchy touchy people here.

First of all, I thank you Brett for having the audacity to even post an article as controversial as this (abortion may be a bit TOO touchy for people around here though).

Second, there's mention, in the comments, that the first article is too emotional. . . well, the second article is too anecdotal. But really, that is the key here. While I'd like to be neutral, I'm going to have to pull for anti-infantile-circumcision, simply because the choice will still be there in the future.

I'm fairly convinced that sexual pleasure is primarily attributed to the 'skill' of the individuals, rather than the penis being circumcised or not. I do think that technique and skill can be modified (for better or worse) from circumcision though, but that's the individual's decision and / or burden.

I'm also pretty sure that every man smells differently, regardless of circumcision (although it CAN be a factor). What we eat, what we do, where we live, a lot of things can factor into how we smell. If you smell cheesy, stop eating cheese.

I'm uncircumcised, and I've considered undergoing circumcision (still am, actually), but the point is that I can still make that choice. If you're really a man, you won't have to complain about the pain, right? I plan on not circumcising my son to let him choose (since, like a few have already said, there really isn't a convincing argument to go either way), and I'll have faith that he's 'man' enough to take the pain if he does decide to be circumcised in the future.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Van Lewis — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:51:38 -0000

Mass involuntary circumcision has failed to achieve any of the public health benefits its advocates have claimed for it; but even if it had achieved them all, there can be no scientific or ethical justification for depriving anyone of sovereignty over his own sex organs. Neonatal circumcision violates bodily integrity and imposes on an unconsenting individual a diminished penis for life. In the wake of the Nuremberg trials, it is inappropriate for doctors to persist in performing or advocating involuntary penile reduction surgery on healthy, normal individuals. The totalitarian concept of involuntary prophylactic surgery espoused by circumcision advocates has no place in modern medicine or the civilized world. The key to decreasing the transmission of STDs is education, not amputation.

P M Fleiss, MD; F M Hodges, PhD; R S Van Howe, MD, in
Immunological functions of the human prepuce
SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED INFECTIONS (London),
Volume 74, Number 5, Pages 364-367,

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Van Lewis — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:27:15 -0000

Ramirez said; "It is a parents right to do what they feel is best for their child."

That is a false statement. Ramirez is wrong. I'll give an example. Many Muslim parents feel that it is best for their daughter to circumcise her, but they have no right in the USA and many other countries to do so, despite what they feel. In fact, it is a federal felony to circumcise a girl, no matter WHAT the parents feel, think, no matter what their religion says about it or doesn't. Parents can NOT do just anything they want to to their children just because they happen to "feel" it is best to do so.

R: "are you kidding me?"

No.

R: "seriously?"

Yes.

R: "you create a child,"

No. My wife and I have two children but we didn't create them. God/MotherNature/Evolution did. Sex did.

R: "you raise a child, you PAY for that child,"

You better!

R: "and NO ONE has more caring and emotion for that child than a parent."

Some parents couldn't care less. Some parents KILL their children. That's their "RIGHT"? If they "feel" it's best for their child?

R: "how DARE you assume that you know whats best for somone else’s child."

The child is not the parents' personal property. The child is his or her OWN personal property, every last cell in that child belongs to that child and to no one else in the world. Circumcising is theft, plain and simple. It is evil. I know it. Many people know it. One day you will, too.

R: "whatever a particular society has as a norm is up to that society to deem acceptable and un acceptable"

Yes, and this society is in the process of deciding that it is unacceptable to injure, traumatize, and recklessly endanger the life of any child by chopping off normal, healthy, living, nonrenewable body parts. Seriously. Get used to it.

R: "as far as the american tradition of male circumcision, it is accepted in our society that it is a parents decision"

I don't accept it. More and more people all the time don't accept it. We're changing it. Soon you will be in the minority.

R: "END OF STORY."

Wrong again.

R: "shut up"

No.

R: "make a difference in you immediate community that does not involve taking away someone else’s rights."

We are not advocating taking away anyone's rights. Adults have no right to injure, traumatize and mutilate children. Period. End of story. The rights that are being taken away are the rights of the children. That is what we are stopping.

R: "quit trying to tell others what is right and wrong."

You are trying to tell us that we are wrong, why can't we tell you that you are wrong? One day you will know it. You may be the last person on earth to realize it, but I am confident that you will some day.

R: "no one changes their mind"

On the contrary, many people change their minds about genital mutilation every day.

R: "i have always felt i was liberal, but with a strict sense of practicality and a fervor for personal liberty, ..."

I, too, have a fervor for personal liberty. That's precisely why I oppose those who take away, forever, a person's personal right to freely make up their OWN mind about their OWN body when they are old enough to know the score. What sex the child happens to have been born is 100% irrelevant.

R: "become a child advocate for those poor children who are genuinely abused"

I have.

Humans have been raping and murdering each other for a lot longer that we have been mutilating our children's sex organs. The antiquity of a practice tells us nothing about its legitimacy.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

egranata — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:57:48 -0000

As a long time reader, I appreciate this topic being approached. It's relevant to the audience of the site (men) and if it brings in more readers, then I see no harm in it.

I see a couple of people complaining about how this site used to adhere to one leaning of thought or another; traditional manliness, etc. The header of the site reads "Art of Manliness", not "Art of Conservative/Liberal/Traditional/Neo/Right/Left Manliness. I would imagine that as the site grows and more writers are brought on board, I might disagree with something that is written. In that case, if it is worth my time, I might voice an opposing opinion. In the future I may see a headline on this site that does not appeal to me. I'll skip it and read something else. No big deal.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Brett — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:52:09 -0000

@Eric- It's called humor. Learn it. It will get you far in life.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Eric — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:47:41 -0000

I don't think the picture with this article is accurate.. Circumcision is removal of the foreskin, not the whole tip of the penis.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Eric — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:46:54 -0000

I agree with Brad. Female circumcision is considered a crime, so male circumcision should be as well, as it's the same in principle.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:35:09 -0000

This site has quickly turned into your average internet slagfest. Congrats!
(Also, for the page clicks; google $$$ FTW!)

No doubt you have many regular readers weighing in here in the comments, but with such a topic (that is to say, a topic that is so obviously and willfully different than your previous topics (e.g., manly shaving or some such thing....) that it stands not only in stark contrast to the site itself, but also in any web search for all the joe/kate/adam/whoevers who make it their sad existence to desperately comb the internets for their causes gauche) you therefore have many outside your...errr.. target demographic (whether you'll admit to wanting one or not).
The real problem, of course, is that, in the past, you've made unquestioned(though well intentioned) appeals to "traditional" (read conservative: "honour", "manliness", "man toolbox"?) vorstellung that might be proven universal ( I like this, BTW) and for all.

"Safari Stories", for instance, would not bode well for those who call for unqualified rights of all organic life forms, etc., as many of the commenters above might. Don't try to play too much of the field.

Re: Clip the Tip? Point/Counterpoint on Male Circumcision

Brad — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:38:17 -0000

Circumcision is mutilating babiesPERIOD. Involuntary and unnecessary surgery. It's nothing less that barbaric. It should be a crime with severe penalties. It is identical in principle to female genital mutilation. What's so hard to understand about that? Why is there even a debate?

How dare any parent let a doctor mutilate their children. If someone wants a circumcision, let them have it done of their own consent when they are old enough to make that decision. Anything else is madness, plain and simple.

The fact that some religions support it does not give it credit. Though it does speak volumes of those religions.