Art of Manliness - Latest Comments in It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Jack Bower — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:28:00 -0000

Your survey is broken

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Jack Bower — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:28:49 -0000

Your survey is broken

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Kevin — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:51:55 -0000

For me the question comes down to respect. I do not adhere to feminism, neither does my wife. She would like to be a stay at home mom, as we both believe this would be better for our children than dumping them off at a day care. We are both working towards this goal, but in the meantime she is at least working from the home and does not have to introduce essentially another parental figure into the home.

When I state the issue comes down to respect, I mean that both the man and the woman in the relationship respect each other as individuals, and as partners. There will always be a natural leader whenever we as humans congregate in groups of more than one, this is inevitable, but does that mean one has to dominate the other? No. And no matter how many of our feminists on this blog would like to say otherwise, in my experience, when a woman takes the mantle of leadership in almost any relationship there is a tendency to prove they are as tough as a man by being a pain in everyone’s ass. This is why so many men say they live by women’s rules, and it is easier to shut up and sit down when the wife is talking. If she had more respect for him she would want to hear what he had to say. Of course in a lot of those cases the man is not as deserving of respect. That gets us into another discussion altogether about who is suitable for marriage, but I digress.

As stated, my wife and I are not feminists, but I know she listens to me, and she knows her opinion is valued. I ask for it often, and expect an honest response even if it is not what I want to hear. Our friends often comment to me that our marriage (8 years by now) is one of the best they know. Respect your spouse, be deserving of their respect, and a lot of these issues will go away.

Oh, and guys, stop getting your nails done. Seriously.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Englishbob — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:14:35 -0000

I often hear this phrase "Equal Pay for Equal Work."

Personally, I don't see the problem with, on average, men earning more than women. I don't actually know if that is even the case any more (I have seen studies that dispute this). But assuming it is the case there are good reasons why men would earn more than women. Just as one example, in my experience, women are not generally as productive as men. By that I do not mean they are bad workers but that they tend to have higher priorities than work (such as children). This means they work less hours and work in jobs that allow them to spend more time with their children. This means they are likely to earn less.

Further, they tend to be married to men who earn more than them which is surely a benefit rather than a disadvantage.

As a man I feel compelled to earn more than my girlfriend. I assume this part of a man's nature. This is merely motivation to work harder, which again is a benefit for us both. As a realist however, I think it is to my advantage if my women earns more than me. That way when we get divorced I can take half her stuff instead of the other way round (joke!).

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Bosshawg — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:37:38 -0000

Authentic masculinity can be found in the following definition: Real men;
1.) REJECT PASSIVITY. They don't sit by wringing their hands and watch the world go to hell in a hand basket. They ACT upon what is right....what is noble. If something isn't right, they stand against it. If something needs fixing, they fix it. They take action!
2.) They ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. Not just for their own lives, but for the good and well being of those within their sphere of influence. That means a real man accepts full responsibility for his wife and children...for their development, well-being, etc. And he breathes a vision for the possibilities into the lives of his children.
3.) He LEADS COURAGEOUSLY! No matter of cost or consequence, a real man will step out and LEAD! That's not just with noise. That's leading by example. It's leading by teaching, by showing, by modeling, by affirmation!

And here's the best part! When a man lives his life in this fashion, PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW! And they will follow.....willingly, because this man is worthy of followship. Perhaps the greatest friction in this discussion is caused because women feel they are being forced into an ineffective and foolish pursuit! In too many cases, women are being forced to "follow" a guy who simply isn't worthy of being followed. He is passive, he doesn't take his role seriously enough to pursue growth in his masculinity and doesn't have the courage to face the opposition.

When a man is noble; when he is a "lover of right"; when his primary purpose on this planet is to fulfill a role of SERVANT LEADERSHIP, their will be a line of people willing to follow. And NONE of them will resent the thought of being in subjection to this man because HE in turn does not lord it over them, but rather leads from a position of servanthood. And the person leading the parad of followers, trumpeting the strength and courage of this man....will be his WIFE!!!!!

In conclusion, it is important to embrace the idea that this isn't a case of either / or. It's a case of both. It's a two way street. When the man conducts himself within the definition above, his wife will be inspired to fulfill her role as a woman. And interestingly enough, when she responds to her man in this way, he in turn is inspired to greater acts of heroic leadership in their family. It becomes a self-perpetuating healthy environment!

I could go on forever on this topic but will shut up for now.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Jeff — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:42:41 -0000

The new generations are becoming "Lost Boy" generations as a product of the dissolving family unit and its strong male/female role models from our progressive culture and society. Almost every civilization that has ever existed has had a "rites of passage" ritual in which, ONLY upon successful completion, the "boy" is recognized as a "man". These rites of passage were established by a civilization's ancestors and passed down from generation to generation and were believed to be SO important that it was required of ALL boys. These rites were so incredibly difficult to complete that death of the boy was likely (metaphorically, even if the boy lived through his ordeal, the boy was considered "dead" at its conclusion). The status of the boy after having passed their rite of passage had changed to that of a man. In other words, he had been tested to prove his skills and qualities of a man and passed.

In our modern society we have lost our own civilization's rites of passage from boy to man. Male role models are weak from and by their distance from their boys and from their own lack of strong masculine role models. Because the new generations of boys no longer have this rite of passage forced upon them to prove their worthiness to the tribe and earn the right to marry and bear children, many of them grow into "adulthood" without ever achieving "manhood".

Not all is lost, however.

Our society's condition can be cured by creating and establishing new tribes, such as the Art of Manliness website, where those individuals seeking the knowledge of and rites of passage to manliness can gather together to pass down and/or learn the wisdom and trials of manhood. Although, our society no longer requires the "death" of the boy before bestowing manhood on the adult man, it can still be sought and "chosen" as the correct path to walk in order to achieve the status of "a modern man". This choice to accept the path to manhood is the first step towards achieving it and I believe this website, and the community which revolves around it, to be a well-concerted effort towards "passing down" the wisdom and knowledge of manliness and I thank you for it.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

LMCA — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:13:07 -0000

Here's an interesting quote from my favorite novel, North and South by Elizabeth Cleghorn Gaskell:

'I suspect my "gentleman" includes your "true man."' [female character speaking]

'And a great deal more, you would imply. I differ from you. A man is to me a higher and a
completer being than a gentleman.' [male character speaking]

'What do you mean?' asked Margaret. 'We must understand the words differently.'

'I take it that "gentleman" is a term that only describes a person in his relation to others; but
when we speak of him as "a man," we consider him not merely with regard to his fellow-men,
but in relation to himself,—to life—to time—to eternity. A cast-away lonely as Robinson
Crusoe—a prisoner immured in a dungeon for life—nay, even a saint in Patmos, has his
endurance, his strength, his faith, best described by being spoken of as "a man." I am rather
weary of this word "gentlemanly," which seems to me to be often inappropriately used, and
often, too, with such exaggerated distortion of meaning, while the full simplicity of the noun
"man," and the adjective "manly" are unacknowledged—that I am induced to class it with the
cant of the day.'

Might that be what the men-aissance needs to focus on?

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Mike — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:44:53 -0000

Wow . . . sucks for him.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

I hate misandry — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:17:42 -0000

For all the feminist that come on this blog, here is the profile of a male born in 1980 (a real person with a name, a face, address, telephone number, SSN - Tax Payer ID) . . . Behold your son at 30 years old:

Childhood Family Unit: Mother with live-in boyfriend turned husband. "Biological" Father is uninvolved because mother did not need/want him for anything except child support.
Upbringing: Daycare 12 hours per day from birth to 10 years old. At 10 years old, school then home alone.
Nutrition: Fast Food
Health: Obese, but not diseased.
Education: Bachelors Degree
Income: $45,000-65,000
Sexuality: Probably heterosexual but he really does not know because women do not want to have sex with him.
Living situation: Lives in an apartment he shared with a friend. He had owned a decent house in a middle-class neighborhood, but sold it because he did not see the point in having it because he had no wife or children to share it with. He saves the money he would have used on the house for retirement.
Personality: Nice guy. Did short term humanitarian work in the 3rd World. Appreciates company and likes sharing his extra income with friends by paying for outings.
Marital Status: Not dating. Asked a single mother from work out on a date with the idea that she was marriage material, and the single mother said yes then canceled because she wanted to have sex with her bad boy ex-boyfriend with birth control so the nice guy decided to steer clear of single mother rather than asked her out again; the ex-boyfriend is unwilling to commit because the single mother has a child.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

John — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 06:52:22 -0000

To Teresa:

Let me thank you for everything you said. I believe you were absolutely right in all of it, and probably the wisest person who has yet commented on this blog. It seldom seems possible that women like you still exist, but I hope the wife I find someday will be as self actualized as you are. It takes a truly strong woman to be who you are.

To everyone that Teresa commented towards; you would do well to listen to her. For the most part, it seems to me like what most of you need most of all is to sit around a camp fire while your grandparents tell you stories. Trust me, you'll learn more from that experience than from all the other stuff you're filling your head with. TV adds, social opinion books and classes. New age enlightenment junk. That song you're listening to right now as you read this.

To the "liberation" side of the argument: Please get over yourselves. I've seen it a million times, you didn't have a good childhood. Mom or dad wasn't home enough to give you love, and possibly the one who was home was either too controlling or to emotionally distant. You aren't trying to be liberated, you're just desperate for attention because you didn't get it enough as a kid. We live in a pretty messed up world I know, and I am sorry that those situations happen to so many people, but if you want to make a difference, have a big slice of humble pie and get over yourself. Stop listening to people who tell you you deserve the best because your special and every one needs to hear about how self liberated and evolved you are. Those people are just trying to sell you something and use you for their own personal gain. I have worked with Hundreds of children in the last six years, and I can tell you children from messed up home lives end up like you are now, self centered and attention desperate. Children from strong families with a loving mother and father, and its even better with multiple siblings, end up doing really well in life. And I don't mean they always make the most money, I mean they are happy and fulfilled.

I am sorry that came off a little more harsh then I intended it to be, but "that is my two cents"

I think everyone would benefit from taking a look at the one person I think displays manliness better than anyone else in history ever has. Jesus Christ. Remember now that the Church was and is his bride. In everything that he has done, remember that he did it for her, for the Church. We would all be a lot better off if we could love our wives as Christ loved the Church. (Ephisians 5:25) If you want to settle all this gender role argument stuff, just read all of Ephisians, and start living the way it tells you to for a few months. Everything else will follow.

To M Hunnicutt: I think you are a pompous ass and you owe Teresa an apology. The fact that you have to belittle her opinion in order to feel secure in your own shows quite clearly who has figured all this out. But to insult her and her role in the relationship with her husband is simply rude. Your post makes you sound like a child throwing a tantrum.

PS. if Jesus as a role model is to controversial for some of you, then read Les Miserables (unabridged if you want to actually understand all the character development) Model your life after Jean Valjean and I promise you will feel more satisfied. Most importantly, learn humility. Its the one thing this world isn't trying to sell you.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Spencer Nickson — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:06:12 -0000

I see a lot of blaming on this thread - blaming women for what men have become, for how men are valued, for how unfairly men are treated. I just don't like what I'm seeing - don't blame anyone. If you have an issue with your our gender is portrayed, then start with yourself. If you're worrying about what constitutes a woman's point of view vs. a man's point of view, then you're wasting time and avoiding what's important. Stop mindlessly following what others tell you to do - get some backbone and do what you know is right. Set an example by the way you carry yourself. Are you living with these principles in mind?: Loyalty, Industry, Resiliency, Resolution, Personal Responsibility, Self-Reliance, Courage, Integrity, Sacrifice...or are you running around criticizing rather than improving, talking behind people's backs, wasting time on trivial and meaningless chores? People will recognize and admire you when you are the one person who shows correct values and virtues and when you refrain from just being another in a sea of followers. Only then can you have an impact and help in changing how the world works. Complaining and blaming is for losers.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Lori — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 05:52:47 -0000

Phil said:
"Mia, you have probably never taken a Women’s studies class, probably not at a California University. What you state is common sense. What is taught in those classes from experience, is the demonization of men!"
Baloney. Sounds like you are the one who has never taken women's studies class. I've taken LOTS of them, and there was no "demonization of men" in any of them. They aren't about men. They are about WOMEN. Hence the name.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Ron — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 09:47:30 -0000

Teresa---- YOU ABSOLUTELY ROCK!!! I want a lady like you!
1] Men make damn poor women
2]Women make damn poor men
3]Women do women things!--- Men do men things!

These above rules been around since time began-- anybody wanting to change them is not likely dealing from a full deck. And above all why would anyone want to?? They may not be perfect but they are a long ways in front of any of the rest.
I really don't believe that feminism and metrosexualism should even have a place in our society. We need to get back to basics!!!

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Alejandro — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:18:40 -0000

Any "Menaissance" will have to start with men having and showing as much respect for themselves as they are ordered to do for women in this politically correct society. It also will begin with men taking more responsibility for the children they bear. I don't care what feminists or alleged child psychology experts say, both genders have something to offer children. The entire human race has survived because men and women played active roles in the lives of their offspring. The handful of hateful comments from prominent feminists Alex quoted above in a post from last year represent the minority of women, but as in many cases, they often are the loudest and get the most attention. I've engaged in more than a few gender-related debates with female friends and coworkers and have had the misogynist label slung at me several times, mainly because I don’t bend over backwards and agree to everything a woman says or does simply because she’s a woman. The most blatant forms of sexism in this country are directed towards men; mainly “Selective Service” and capital punishment, but also divorce court and vehicle insurance rates. We have a “Violence Against Women” act, for example, even though most acts of violence are perpetrated against men. Men just need to stop displaying so much respect for women that they allow disrespect for themselves, which is exactly what’s happened in recent years. Younger generations of men certainly aren’t to blame for what’s happened in the past, so they shouldn’t continue to suffer the repercussions. In other words, guys, hoist your balls back into your sac and stop tolerating radically feminist s***!

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Mikey — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 12:01:54 -0000

Metrosexuals are the way the are for attention. Today, the Gay world is getting all kinds of attention, partly because of the gay marrige laws. but assumwing some kind of role that compares you to a gay, will get you attention. Also, the macho man thing is becoming more of a mans ideal man, and less for women. Women often look for someone they can relate to in a relationship, so if you can relate to how hard of a time she had picking out shoes, and you can style her hair, it might seem that you are bringing a lot more to the table than, those who can open the door for her and change the oil. I'm not sure how relevent this is to what has been discussed here, but thats all I got

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Courtney — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:26:58 -0000

Well, this is good if you're talking about European-American gender roles. I'm Eastern Band Cherokee, and we have a matriarchal family system. As such, the women own the homes and do make the rules. I would shy away from the Eurocentrism a bit more and realize that other cultures have different definitions of what makes a man.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Phil — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 00:55:18 -0000

Mia, you have probably never taken a Women's studies class, probably not at a California University. What you state is common sense. What is taught in those classes from experience, is the demonization of men!

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Marty — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:45:02 -0000

I also wanted to add that while men have by and large lost the meaning of "gentleman," women have lost the meaning of "lady." Both of those titles ought to be earned.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Marty — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:41:34 -0000

Men are specializers, women are multi-taskers. Take any skill, art, ability etc. and the best person in that field will be a man. But compare your average man and woman, and the woman will be better at more things, and doing those things simultaneously, than the man.

For men to maintain their relevance in this day and age, they need to find what they are excellent at, and pursue that with all that they can muster. Men will always be leaders in their chosen path if they choose correctly.

Rather than encourage "empowerment" for either sex, I would encourage men and women to seek harmony, above all. It was this single-track obsession with power that led feminism to the extremes it is in today, most noticeable in the dissolution of the family. Notice how the divorce rate skyrocketed as the feminist wave swept through society, because they wanted power, and independence, rather than peace and harmony. Equal rights can be found in either, but the latter is far more benevolent.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Aurora Erratic — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:51:20 -0000

There is a part I don't get. What's up with wanting to make more money than your wife -- i assume that is what's meant by "breadwinner?" Why not, you do the best you can in terms of compensation and job satisfaction, and she does the best she can? Then everybody's happy. Why would a husband's accomplishment be meaningful only if it outstrips his wife's?

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Aurora Erratic — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 09:18:54 -0000

By all means, let's have a Menaissance! Feminism is about creating a society in which no one is held back from his or her potential. If a Menaissance means that men are made to feel good and powerful about being men, then let's go. I would be terribly disappointed if feeling good about being men means belittling or feeling superior to women.
Yes, I am nervous about the premise; there are already many men commitiing violence aganst women because of perceived humilation or disempowerment. I would hope an embrace of the masculine virtues would not include violence.
Unfortunately reading some of the other articles linked on this blog I do see more blaming and less empowerment than I think is good for anyone. We are strong, competent men and women: let's take responsibility for our own lives and happiness, instead of looking for someone to point a finger at.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Jeffrey — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:53:44 -0000

If you haven't read Wild at Heart by John Eldridge, you should. It really explains much of what men have gone through and are going through in our society. I loved it.

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Dave — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:07:34 -0000

Great article. Men have had their balls cut off and it is pitiful.

It's time for change (but not like a presidential one, a real one)

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Priya — Sat, 24 May 2008 07:38:35 -0000

"Men are no longer needed. For the past 40 years, the role of men in Western society has diminished immensely. Before men were seen as providers and protectors. It seems the only thing men are good for is providing sperm for species propagation."

I disagree, right now strong male role models are needed more than ever. As I work closely with teenagers, I have seen a pattern where young underachieving boys almost always lack a father figure in the home. Boys need to learn how to be a man through what they see in their family. An male authority figure is essential for a child when growing up. Many boys brought up in a single-parent family either become quite soft and 'prissy' or (more often) end up struggling with authority and often have very low aspirations.

Some men seem to think that being the provider and offering financial security is their main role as husband and father. With equal opportunities in employment, and the current economic climate this is no longer the case. In my opinion children need to grow up in a family with both parents showing them how to behave and teaching them values and a work ethic. So obviously men are not redundant, both parents are equally important in the family unit. A man to me is far more than someone who 'provides sperm' and money, this is just a small part of what a man provides.

Children need to learn how to form relationships, and they do this by looking at their parents. I want my children to see how important trust, mutual respect and love is in a relationship. I also want them to learn a strong work ethic and be kind, honest and know how to handle themselves. I need my partner to be there to show our children what a man is, so I am all for a 'Menaissance' if it gets you men to be confident and start to embrace your role as father/ husband/ partner. You need to understand that being the provider is not the main part of being a man.

Unfortunately in the UK with the Benefits system being abused by so many, it has become the case that single parents are entitled to more money than families that stay together. This has led to people not trying to form healthy and sustaining relationships. This is having a huge negative impact on society and has led to 'CHAV' culture in the UK. I strongly believe that if children have a strong relationship with their father, who provides a male figure than they can look up to then things will change for the better.

"In the midst of solving one problem, however, we’ve created another. While the feminist movement focused on the role of women in society, little discussion was given to what men’s role in this new world would be. As a result, we’re left with men who are confused and lost about their purpose as a man."

I don't think feminism has much to do with the change in the role of a man. Surely just because women are now in the workforce and have campaigned for the vote amongst other things- men should not be left questioning their purpose as men? The media is often at fault for the way men are shown to be inept and needing their wives to bail them out. This is evident in The Simpsons, and many other programmes. You can't say it is because of feminism that men are feeling depressed as many of you admit to not knowing what feminism is. I'll give you a very brief overview- feminism is divided into three waves.The first wave was in the 19th and early 20th centuries and refers to women's suffrage movements which was concerned with women's right to vote. The second wave was in the 60s and 70s where it was called women's liberation and feminists campaigned for legal and cultural equality for women. The third wave is from the 90s to today.

Feminism is concerned with issues such as a woman's reproductive rights, including the right to choose whether to have an abortion, access to contraception, protection from domestic violence, sexual harassment and rape, equal workplace rights (things like maternity leave and equal pay) and other forms of discrimination. I think most men will agree that these are positive actions, and shouldn't make men feel threatened. Come on men make this 'Menaissance' make men believe they can be what they want to be. What women do shouldn't come into it!

Re: It’s Time For a “Menaissance”

Dan — Fri, 23 May 2008 12:45:37 -0000

"If you believe that a notion such as menaissance is a relevant topic of discussion, you must have trouble grasping the fact that feminism is just another politically correct device used to control the thoughts and actions of perceived enemies. And, of course, perpetuate myths that men and women have different pay scales for the same jobs. That’s illegal, and total rubbish."

*Hear, hear!*

If no-one minds my saying so this has strayed from what seems to be a very sensible idea and one I'd support wholly to a mini gender war.

My partner and I have a very stable and more crucially, an equal relationship in everyway with regards to the relationship itself. People need to realise that there is no such thing as 'gender roles' with regards to the distribution of tasks any more other than those set by literal biological gender differences and we (my partner and I) choose to take on these tasks based solely on circumstance.

I do most of the cooking because I enjoy it and have the most experience however, if I were to have a rough day and come home obviously weary my partner will take on the cooking, and cleaning for me. Not because it's her job to do the cleaning and she's taking on the cooking for my benefit but because she loves me. Although she does, she doesn't need to know that I would do the same in return, she does it out of love, as I do in return. Where does gender come into that?

I do however believe I have responsibilities as a man, just as my partner has hers as a woman...

I come from a single parent family, consisting of me (the youngest member and only male) my mother and my two sisters. I was a real problem child and I now know that it was caused by a lack of male influence. I was never scared of my mothers' diciplinary actions as I was always stronger and therefore never really received any. Most of my outbursts would never have been if it weren't for the fact that I had no suitable role model. In the same way, my sisters heavily influenced my development as they were my only peers.

When I reached my early teens this got to breaking point, living in foster care and in remand homes I came to realise what it was that was wrong and why. I had spent years unconsciously looking for male role models and failing, as I was not wise enough to make a good choice as to who that role model should be. Thankfully, I had two older friends that realised what I needed and what I was looking for and over a few years of friendship, taught me what it was to be a man.
Now I know, and it's got nothing to do with who does what and when, it's to do with maintaining an equilibrium.

When my children come into this world I shall teach my boys how to be a man and my girls what a man is. It is my opinion that girls need to be tought what a real man is to be able to avoid the hormonally impaired single parent factory scum of this world. If I show my boys that I have no respect for these people they will not respect themselves if they become anything like them and ergo avoid growing up to be one. I'm not implying that this can only be done by a man but I believe a woman would find it harder to impart this information upon their offspring as I would find it harder to teach my girls what it is to use a tampon or wear make-up.

Personally I think it's as important for a man to express his gender with a straight back, square shoulders and a strong loving hand as it is for women to do so with expertly applied make-up, beautifully kept hair and a soft loving embrace.

I for one can't wait to see my boys standing with a straight back, squared shoulders, chest out, head high and a proud grin. impersonating me, their dad, a man, and damned proud of it!

P.S. Bring back the hat!