Art of Manliness - Latest Comments in The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Patrick M Dillon — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:38:40 -0000

As the saying goes Once you find a real friend !!! U've found a treasure !!!

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Lance — Thu, 26 Sep 2013 13:31:58 -0000

I really enjoyed this post. I came here after reading the Wikipedia page of Friedrich Nietzsche and learning about the apparent difference between man friends in the 19th century. This really helped me put a lot of things on my mind into perspective. Thanks!

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Zach — Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:02:02 -0000

I really liked this article. Being 21, I live in a very millennial society that is just text messaging and not being "connected". I'm a very feminine guy. I'm an INFJ, which you should research to get a better picture :)
I crave really deep bonds with guys because I'm more prone to connect with girls more than guys, due to cultural stereotypes. I'm the type of friend that will give you the shirt off my back, eat ice cream when you break up with your boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. I recently ended a friendship with someone I considered my best friend. We became roommates the second portion of my junior year in college. We made a roommate switch with our prior roommates because we needed to better fit our personalities together. I wasn't expecting to be friends with the guy, just a nice, cohabitee arrangement. WELL fate had another idea, and we ended up being really close in interests, and grew up watching the same shows, and had the same morals. We never had a fight. A few times, we had some concerns and things, but it never affected the friendship. I was very happy that I found a friend who I could live with that liked my company, and I liked his.
I got to know his family, and visited a few times my senior year, for Thanksgiving, and whenever I could make it over a weekend to hang out (he graduated a semester before I did). We had made a plan to move off campus and both work and get an apartment together. When his job let him go, he had to move back home, but the plan was he would come back to the area and we would get an apartment. That didn't happen. When he moved back home, our communication changed. He was really good when it came to face to face communication, but used technological communication in a more business-type fashion. I knew the friendship would look different, and I knew from how it was the summer past where I would make attempts to text him, but the response never lead to a conversation.
I assumed that's just how he was. I learned later he was an INTJ, which is very similar to mine, but has significant differences.
I made attempts to talk to him and hang out, but it never seemed he received my attempts.
To make a long story short, I finally emailed him, telling him I didn't understand the lack of communication, but that I saw it as a problem and that we needed to talk about it. He replied that he felt sorry about it, and that he was really busy and I was really busy, so it made hang out sessions more complicated. He mentioned we could possibly hang out soon, and I told him to let me know when he could.
I had been holding out for him to come back. I was couch hopping because I couldn't afford to move back on campus, and I couldn't afford to get a place or even share a room (trust me, had plenty of interviews). I finally knew he wasn't coming back, but it was a decision he made that was never communicated to me. I told him through text that I would be moving back home, and that I was changing the plan. He apologized again, and told me he hoped to hang out soon.
Graduation came, and I stayed away from him. I had honestly cried throughout the week before grad day because I couldn't understand what went wrong and I felt like he gave up on me.
When I moved back home, we had a quick text conversation where he told me he was sorry we couldn't hang out, and that he was glad I could "finally sleep in my own bed". He still said he hoped we could hang out sometime.
Finally, about late July, I sent him a letter. I told him I couldn't be his friend anymore, because it seemed our definitions of friendship was different than each other's, and what I was asking from him seemed to be something he couldn't give me. While it was a good closure moment for me, it frustrated me because he never responded. Never called, texted, emailed, facebooked, nothing. Even if I was in the wrong, I was surprised he never at least tried to "save it", whatever that look like, or state his opinion. It's been a month, and I miss what we had. I was there for him when his grandpa passed, and his older brother thanked me for being a friend for him when he was away from school. I miss his family. His mother always encouraged me, and told me she hoped my character rubbed off on her son. His dad loved me cause I worked for Starbucks so I would always bring him coffee lol. But it was such a neat family that I will never ever see again, or have any means of relationship with. It was very upsetting that for whatever reason, it ended, and I never got a say in it.
I come from a highly populated city, and he lived more out in the country, so he was very close with his friends all throughout their upbringings. I remember thinking "I can't compete with that". I was never jealous, but the friendship I thought we had was always "compromised" when I was around his friends, because I didn't have that long of a connection with him than his friends did. I miss all the promises we made. He said he wanted to bring me on board with projects he wanted to do back home, and he said how goofy things we would say to each other at our weddings. Those things will never happen.
I've always wanted a very close friend with a guy, but it seems for whatever reason that's not in the hand that's been dealt to me. I feel like I was born in the wrong period. I think 19th century friendships would serve me better.
Thanks for reading.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

August — Sun, 28 Jul 2013 23:39:57 -0000

"The Heroic Friendship
In ancient times, men viewed man friendships as the most fulfilling relationship a person could have. Friendships were seen as more noble than marital love with a woman because women were seen as inferior. Aristotle and other philosophers extolled the virtues of platonic relationships- a relationship of emotional connection without sexual intimacy. Platonic relationships, according to Aristotle, were the ideal."
This is a wrong interpretation of Platonic love. What most people don't know is that Platonic love originaly means "only sex when also love is involved" Sexs without love was called pornè from which pornografy comes. About Aristotle you should read the following. It is from his book Nicomachea about all levels of friendship. What follows now is the highest level of friendship.
"For friendship is essentially a partnership. And a man stands in the same relation to a friend as to himself; but the consciousness of his own existence is a good; so also therefore is the consciousness of his friend's existence; but this consciousness is actuallized in intercourse; hence friends naturally desire each other's society. And whatever pursuit it is that constitutes existence for a man or that makes his life worth living, he desires to share that persuit with his friends........But the friendship of the good is good, and grows with their intercourse." (Aristoteles'Ethica Nicomachea book 9 ,Loeb Classical Library)
What does it matter, sex or no sex? The ultimate consequence of intimicy is sex. This is not homosexueal but natural logic. For this reason the Greek didn't even had a word for homosexuality. The whole gay idea coms from the christian religion, not from nature. Nature doesn't care who you love and how you express it. It's only western frustration who makes all these discussions.
August Fennet from Holland Not straight not gay, just normal!

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Jonathan — Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:17:40 -0000

I found this page while looking for ideas on romantic, male friendships. I have a friend of five years now, and he is a big sweetheart. We are quirky in similar ways, have similar backgrounds and interests. I don’t know anyone else that likes all the odd stuff that I do. One night after hanging out over meaty man food and beers, we biked home and started playing street tag on our bikes. I felt like I was 12 years old again. It was exhilarating and…well, mystical—like I was inside my favorite adolescent movie.

He offers to carry my stuff, shows me how to fix my bike, shares his homemade brews, shows me his favorite places, waits for me to get off work so we can walk home together. I felt totally safe with him until one night he looked me square in the eyes without saying a word. He just held my gaze. I looked away in embarrassment. When I looked back, he was still looking at me. It would have been OK notwithstanding the fact I date men, so this was very confusing to me.

I don’t question that men are in need of affection. In Italy, France and Spain it is customary for men to greet each other with a kiss on each cheek. When Italian immigrants arrived in the USA, sociologist, if we can call them that, writing in the early 20th century documented this behavior as latent homosexuality. This was unfortunate to say the least. However, even in antiquity the relationship between Patroclus and Achilles was regarded as sexual in nature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wik..., 2013).

Furthermore, the relationship between David and Jonathon has obvious sexual overtones. Hebrew has no vowels, and this can leave room for interpretation of text. For example, if we were to write the English word foot without vowels, we would write the letters f and t, or ft. However, feet, fat and fit would also be represented in this way. So the passage that reads, Jonathon stood before David and God was with him, in Hebrew could also be read as, he stood before him with an erection (Helminiak, 2007).

The Gospel of Matthew was written between 80-90 CE in Greek and there was no standard Latin translation until the fourth century. In the story of the centurion (Matt 8), the writer uses the word “pais” in Greek which has been translated into modern English as “servant”, yet in Classical Greek pais is more akin to male lover than servant. The translation has been adjusted to accommodate the modern reader, but the later translation would be more consistent with Jesus’ association with those we were considered ritually impure.

The ancient’s worldview on male sexuality was quite different than ours. While we should not project our modern views on sexuality and relationship onto historical friendships, we can also assume that just because two guys were friends, doesn’t preclude a little rub and tug every now and then.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Denis — Mon, 25 Mar 2013 04:52:04 -0000

I have spent my youth and adult with either living abroad and serving in the US Armed Forces. Like Brett, we cuddeled up for warmth, held each other when one needed it. Watched as our comrades lay dying etc. I lived in Europe for so many years, went to the nude family baths etc. Have shared the same bed on many occasions with other males. Neither I nor they would assume sex was in the making. It is just natural sometimes to save on hotel costs etc. Here in the US, which I really can no longer stand. The customs in ref to male bonding truly for lack of a better expression SUCK. I yearn to meet someone around the Albuquerque area (Perhaps Military ex or whatever) who have similar backgrounds and have no male friends. Yes I am married and have older children. Yet I truly miss and yearn for some male companyonship. Maybe some of you who are of similar circumstances could write to me and give me some encouragement. I have PTSD from the 3 combat tours. I take some meds. I am neither crazy or do I get angry or lash out etc. I just sometimes think of the past, failed lst marriage etc. No buddies anymore etc. I am warm, kind, gently and loyal to a good friend. Tks for reading my letter. Denis

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

RDSW4 — Thu, 07 Mar 2013 21:17:19 -0000

Incredible article and I didn't think there was anyone who thought the way I did. I have longed for a true male friend my entire life and I have a lot of baggage in my life too... and I found onel (A BFF, not more baggage!). He is 20 years younger than I (which is fine) but he thinks along the same lines as everything written above. The thing I did differently this time than what I had done in the past: I was HONEST about myself, my past, everything I have ever done. Totally upfront and let him be the judge. We are practically inseperable now. I am single and he is married with children...but it works well and I have never been happier. We hug, talk about "deep" issues, shake hands a little too often :) and, well, we love each other... deeply. We are not having sex with each other... but we have even said that we are "married without the other stuff". I have made it my goal to make my time with my BFF time where he doesn't have to deal with the same drama he gets with family (sometimes I fail) but my Best Friend forgives me when I fall, as I forgive him and we move on...closer than we were before. I didn't know just how much I had been missing in my life until I met my Best Friend and I will cherish him until the day I die and I don't hesitate to tell anyone who will listen about my awesome Best Friend. Thanks again for the great article.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

VamPie — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:11:27 -0000

Great article, but I think you're wrong about female friendship. Female friendship can be just as good, though probably more emotional. Of course there are always disloyal or selfish people around, but it doesn't mean that true friendship - male or female - cannot exist.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Jay M — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:08:53 -0000

I was doing research for a project and this was in the list of results. I can give maybe a different perspective on male relationships. I am gay. You'd think gay guys have the best relationships ever. While a tiny percentile do. Most don't. The gay culture is extremely shallow. It is based on age, looks, body and penis size and not necessarily in that order. I can say this without hesitation because it is true. I've been out for 24 years. Gay society is incredibly segregated and hopelessly intolerant. The only thing that allows any crossover is cash or a derivative thereof (i.e. fame, position, family name, nice car). The only thing that trumps cash is if you have 10plus in all the aforementioned items. The 10plus scenario usually allows you to accumulate cash from any number of sources. So it is an equation that invariably includes money. Genuine friendships in the gay world are few and far between and are very often looked upon as a liability. Most every guy is either a potential sex partner or competition.

From the outside straight men think gay men just love straight women as friends. I can honestly say every gay man has done or is doing the fag hag schtick. It usually doesn't end well. Gay culture is very misogynistic. Gays and lesbians don't hang out together that often either, FYI. I don't know a single lesbian, let alone have one as a friend. It doesn't work very well. You've heard the saying men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Well multiply that by a trillion and you have the gay lesbian dynamic.

I can tell all the straight guys on here that women are terrified of a gay anything getting near their guy. I think that is why they infiltrate the gay camps. I have to admit when I was younger and it was very hip to have a personal fag hag, I helped many a woman screw a guy over. The thing many women resent more than anything is the guy friendship thing. They don't understand it and will go to extreme lengths to sever it. I have also seen the situation where a woman was rejected in favor of the guy's best friend.

I had two best friends. One was gay and one was straight. The gay one was not an old boyfriend and there was no sex involved at all. Sex complicates any relationship. Contrary to popular belief, I wasn't in love with the straight guy either. He knew I was gay. I have to tell the truth. While my gay friend knew much about me, he really didn't know me at all. There is the inherent mistrust in gay culture of being dumped on. So, with any friend, you feed them equal amounts of truth and fiction for the possible, plausible deniability. I did indeed love him very much and I really never had to worry about his stabbing me in the back. He died a few years back of kidney failure due to type 1 diabetes.

The straight guy and I were very close and in actuality he knew me better than the gay friend. I didn't have to prevaricate with him because he did not move in the same circles. I knew everything about him, to the point of discomfort in some cases. Then he got married and, you guessed it, the wife hated me. I don't have anyone now and I just feel sort of lost. It's sad really.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Mark — Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:43:33 -0000

I think that males in America for the sake of their sons and new generation need to make a conscious effort to step out of the homophobic prison that we have been living under. Fortunately, I have a lot of friends who have no problem hugging, kissing hello or good bye and telling each other that they love each other during times that are seemingly appropriate. None of us are gay. It might be because the majority of us being Italian, Spanish and Portuguese have been raised with this but interestingly enough, our friends who are not seem to really enjoy expressing thier feelings for one another. It is sad when everything a guy does is overanalyzed to death and considered gay or odd. It needs to stop for the sake of the next generation who seemingly today can not build male friendships and seem so isolated because they are afraid of labels. I also think that the homosexual movement in this country has confused people into believing that any non sexual display of affection between men is a sign that there is some sexual feeling. It is wrong and it is misleading and it should be dismissed as ignorance.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Leo Gomez — Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:15:30 -0000

I lived in Guangzhou, China from August 2006-October 2009. The newness of seeing guys holding hands was at first, a shock. I taught school there and some of my male students also held hands. I got use to it, and came to realize there was nothing wrong with. I too held hands with some of my male students more for a "I will take care of you" feeling, more than anything else. It's a shame that we have lost any emotional ties with men in the USA.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Rahul — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:07:15 -0000

Hey,

Am a long-time reader from India and got to say, I love your website but I felt compelled to comment on this article giving my perspective as an Indian (or let's just say non-westerner). I was in the US for two years and have travelled extensively, so can talk about the differences in attitude.

In India, it used to be common to see close male friends holding hands while walking, to have a hand on each other's shoulder or hug each otehr when meeting. This was because, a) there was limited interaction between men and women and so a man's best friends were invariably his mates and b) Because the concept of homosexuality or even of homophobia was not on anyone's mind ie: it was not even thought possible. (of course, it must have existed but basically lurking in the shadows).

On the contrary, since we have been a traditional and conservative society, it would be scandalous for an unmarried man or woman to be hugging each other (because here there was always the possibility of sexual relations : a big NO-NO between an unmarried man and woman). So in fact, we were the opposite case ie: there would never be man-woman friendships as there would always be a suspicion of something going on which did not have social sanction and in a sense a man would never appreciate a woman for her personality but only for her physical beauty. Myself having grown-up at a certain time, like it or not, am sometimes uncomfortable with the concept of pure friendship between a man and a woman. I am not saying this is good, just pointing out the difference in mentality.

Unfortunately, today with the flattening of the world and the ready access to and influence of western or american culture this easy familiarity between male youngsters has dissapeared from our bigger cities, though thankfully is alive an well in our smaller cities, where it is not uncommon to see young men unselfconciously hold hands etc. However, this leads western tourists to think that most Indians are gay.That's crazy.

Personally, I feel much more fulfilled from my male friendships due to one simple reason outlined in the article: LOYALTY. The concept of standing by your mate through thick and thin and against the entire world if necessary is something I feel u can only get through male-male friendships and I have been lucky enough to find a few friends like that. On the other hand, I have seen too many so called male female friendships get ruined by one person getting attracted to the other or it being like a one-way exchange ie: I have seen quite a few of my male friends being used in one way or another by girls helping them in various ways around the house, explaining concepts at work, protecting them when drinking etc...all in the name of friendship.

Perhaps my thoughts are skewed in one way , based purely on personal experience and conditioning. But I would say go for male friendships guys. They can be deep and can help you weather many a storm.

Regards,
Rahul

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

ManInTheMaking — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:07:53 -0000

Personally, I'm sick of these modern concepts of male friendship. It's way too uncomfortable, and even feels unnatural, because of homophobia. Emotional and physical bonding is something that has lacked in my relationships and now I regret how shallow my friendships really are. I'm working on it though. A real man shouldn't be afraid of close friendships. It takes strong effort though, especially in this modern world. Let's go deeper and form real manly companionship!

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Andrew Brinkerhoff — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:39:00 -0000

I have to add that my thinking on male friendship was helped immensely by C.S. Lewis' discourse on it in his wonderful book "The Four Loves." A fine bit of concise, layman's level philosophy on the different kinds of relationships, including an analysis of the dire straits modern men are in due to the castigation of close male friendship in our day.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Edgar — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:17:41 -0000

This article brought up significant points that seem to be invisible to us with the modern-day acceptance of that most unmanly of all activities: homosexuality. In the 19th century, homosexuality was simply unthinkable and unimaginable for the vast majority of people (which is not to say that there was no homosexual activity). It is precisely because homosexuality was mentally non-existent that men could, for example, share a bed.

I will quote from A Requiem for Friendship: Why Boys Will Not Be Boys & Other Consequences of the Sexual Revolution, a thought-provoking article showing how the sexual revolution in general, and homosexual liberation in particular, have been harmful for men, boys, and male relationships.

"What is more, those who will suffer most from this movement [i.e., the sexual revolution and its concomitant homosexual liberation] are precisely those whom our society, stupidly considering them little more than pests or dolts, has ignored. I mean boys.

"How is this so? Return to the example of Lincoln. His age was surely not more tolerant of homosexuality or of sexual deviancy generally than is ours: Accounts of the Civil War show young men brought to the brink of blackest despair by their inability to break the habit of self-abuse. How, then, if deviancy was such a reproach, could Lincoln risk sharing a bed with a man and having the fact be publicly known? But that is precisely the point. Only in such a case is the bed-sharing possible.

"I am sorry to have to use strong language, but only when sodomy is treated as a matter of course for everyone (as in the institutionalized buggery of boys and young men in ancient Sparta) or when it is met with such opprobrium that nobody would assume that a good man would engage in it, could Lincoln and his friend share that bed without suffering ridicule. The stigma against sodomy cleared away ample space for an emotionally powerful friendship that did not involve sexual intercourse, exactly as the stigma against incest allows for the physical and emotional freedom of a family.

"...The libertinism of our day thrusts boys and girls together long before they are intellectually and emotionally ready for it, and at the same time the defiant promotion of homosexuality makes the natural and once powerful friendships among boys virtually impossible."

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Bud Robinson — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 13:40:07 -0000

I just saw the flick, "I Love You, Man." The movie puts a really interesting spin on the male-male bond. It's hysterical because after seeing it last night and reading this article today, I realize the friends I have now will be forever there for me.

"I Love You, Man" makes it cool to tell your friends that you love them, although it is still a weird thing to hear or say. But having two of my oldest friends in town this weekend made the movie so much more than just a comedy.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Brucifer — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:27:25 -0000

Excellent article! I too, miss the strong bonding experienced in the military.

Also, my unit had a number of gays and it was not so much a matter of "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" as it was of Don't Give A Flipin Shit. I clearly remember holding and comforting a gay military comrade whose long-time lover had just died in a freakish accident during a field training exercise. The entire unit, officers and enlisted, deeply mourned the deceased, who had long held the reputation as the finest soldier among us.

Please know that I am also gratified at the civil, genteel and often erudite comments on this blog. It is a quite refreshing change from the boorish juvenility evidenced elsewhere.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

alex — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:05:19 -0000

ive had the same two friends since grade school, weve been like brothers since the day we met, we are so close as friends have acted way in public that would make us look gay to the average american man, this article hit the nail on the head how phenomenal a male friendship can be can recover from anything and be stronger than ever.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Ryan Shelton — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 14:44:58 -0000

Great article. It reminded me of the Authorized Biography of JRR Tolkien. He was of a generation of men that knew what male bonding and manly friends were about.

It also reminded me of the great fictional friendship between Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin (in the Patrick O'Brian series). Often Maturin refers to Jack as "My Dear" in writing and person.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Tim Woolery — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 23:28:49 -0000

Some of the best words I've found on the same topic come from Somerville, MA and a Best-of-Craigslist post that discusses the differences between "friends" and "mates". I've never forgotten it.

http://www.craigslist.org/a...

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Sky — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 01:08:43 -0000

I like this article a lot. Awesome job unpacking the way men's friendships have changed over time, with attention to the social construction of gay identity.

I just wish that at the end, you hadn't digressed into comparing man friendships with friendships between women, because in so doing, you oversimplify the latter. Just because YOU'VE never seen a certain dynamic among women doesn't mean it exists. The "men are from mars, women are from venus" attitude is so reductionistic.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Danny — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:34:27 -0000

Just discovered AoM yesterday. I'm really impressed.

You know it's funny, I was at a party the other day and I was sitting next to one of my close friends. Just for the shock value to the people around us, I reached out and held his hand in mid-conversation. A couple of people laughed and it did the trick. But after awhile things just continued normally. And only later on, when all the shock value had gone away and one of us had to get up to use the bathroom, did we realize that we'd been holding hands for almost an hour.

I care deeply about the women and men in my life. And ladies, say what you will, but just as there are wonderful aspects that are found exclusively in female friendships, there are also some wonderful bonds that can only be found in male relationships, and there is nothing wrong with celebrating them.

Great article!

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Tom — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:49:56 -0000

I find that in my country (UK), men have these strong bonds but choose to express them in different, and fairly odd ways. Often my closest friends will greet me with an insult, and then announce that he did something terrible to my mother, to which I reciprocate in kind. Obviously if a casual friend had said those things it would be no laughing matter, but insulting each other in an amusing (albeit childish) way is a form of showing trust in each other.

There was an incident years ago involving two Manchester United footballers. During a match, one of the footballers (Paul Ince) was called a 'black c***' by an opposing player, and after the match went out on the town with his team mates. As he and another player (Mark Hughes) were coming out of a nightclub, Hughes put his arm around Ince and jokingly slurred, 'take me home you black c***!'. A black doorman overheard this, took great offence and grabbed Hughes by the throat, and only let go when Ince told him, 'It's ok, he's my mate! He can call me whatever he wants!'

You may find this sort of thing deeply immature and childish, but I think it shows that male friendship can be a strange and beautiful thing.

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Matt in NZ — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:39:49 -0000

I just happened across this blog by linking from another (you know how these things go). It's fantastic. What amazes me even more is that there are men out there who obviously miss the comraderie and unique close friendship that a male friend can offer.

I am gay (yet strangely manly!) so much of the hugging stuff doesn't really bother me. What I want to say however, is that I have several straight male friends who also have no problems with hugging me or demonstrating affection in a physical way. I guess this is testament to the fact that they know and trust me, and that they are very secure in their own sexuality. Sure - I wind them up every now and again - after all what are gay friends for - but they take it in good humour and often reciprocate the humour (as do their wives and partners). Mates - gay or straight - maketh the man...

Re: The History and Nature of Man Friendships

Will — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:47:06 -0000

@Chris, good luck to you. I'm sure there are many who can overlook a sordid past in a friend. After all, it's past, so it won't involve *them*. At least, that's how I think I would feel.