Art of Manliness - Latest Comments in The Writing on the Door

Re: The Writing on the Door

Anna — Fri, 14 Jun 2013 20:11:07 -0000

I don’t think it is wrong for guys to open doors for women, UNLESS they are doing it BECAUSE I am a woman. Now that is wrong, because it implies women deserve more respect (having doors opened for them, etc.) then men do. That implicated idea is offensive to me as a feminist. Men and women are equal, and I don’t want any man to do something for me that implies women are better than men, or more worthy of respect, because they are not.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Chris — Wed, 22 May 2013 19:25:07 -0000

Of course women "can" open doors for themselves, but it is a common courtesy as a man to do the chivalrous thing and hold it for them. There are plenty of other things women could "do for themselves", but I'm not sure that all of you nay sayers would be as happy if they went to that extreme as you are for them to "hold their own flipping door". Quit whining, be a gentleman and hold the door for Pete's sake!

Re: The Writing on the Door

Amy — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 10:23:55 -0000

Without intending to you have highlighted with manifesto-esque quality the feminism's offspring, hideously turning out not to be a female liberated from woman, a person purged of a tumour, but a deformed newborn, that is, new woman, half woman and half female, with no concept of either complete woman-ness or female-ness, no sense of the wrongness of her own state, and as a result sexism in two distinct forms: woman-hating sexism, represented by the desire for classlessness, and female-hating sexism, represented by the desire for class (i.e., to be woman). Deluded into the belief that you are neither deluded nor require liberation, like so many examples through history, you are able to write articles such as the one above and convince yourself that you have not made a declaration of self-hatred, that your woman urges are natural, not an abomination, not a tumour to be removed with extreme prejudice. This is the failure of feminism. How obscene that after decades of revolution woman emerges triumphant and anesthetises the female into Orwellian compliance, nay, compulsion. You believe that the intellect can not surpass the physical (forgetting that the mind creates the physical, not the other way around), and in that instant resign yourself to the subservience that you now attempt to fortress. How absurdly grotesque.

Re: The Writing on the Door

conflicted — Tue, 19 Feb 2013 02:31:43 -0000

I feel very conflicted about the steriotipical men and woman of old

If I am supposed to open the car door in the rain, is this some implicit way of saying that my physical well being (case in point: getting wet/getting a cold) is less important than hers ?

More proeminently, if I am supposed to defend a woman in a altercation, are my physical integrity and continued life less important then hers ?

It may seem that this is a rethorical point, but it is not. I really want to understand/get opinions and answers

Re: The Writing on the Door

Steve Boucher — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 22:00:22 -0000

as per Barney Stinson (the bro code) if they can have their own basket ball league they can open their own door, it is not that heavy.
If my hands are full or I am incapacited in some manner then yes I like someone to hold the door for me but othewise I DESPISE it when someone does that. I dont want to feel I owe then something and having them do that for me means I owe them next time. I always feel I need to speed up to get to the door so they dont have to wait for me etc. I have two hands and a heartbeat. I can handle a door myself and expect others to do the same

Re: The Writing on the Door

Utsav — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 02:51:30 -0000

Is there a woman out there that can open the car door for me?

Re: The Writing on the Door

Viktor Khersonski — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:07:07 -0000

I agree wholeheartedly with this post! The one thing I feel you missed out on, is that a man should not only hold the door for a women, but also for other men and even random strangers.

Think for a second about how rude it would be if a guy we re holding a door for his gal, then as you walked up he let it drop and slam in your face... That's just being courteous, not chivalrous. Which is, lest we forget, equally important.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Anon — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:41:33 -0000

To me a real man will support and encourage my career aspirations.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Tasha — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:40:42 -0000

I'm a 18 yearold female, first off I'd like to say I completely agree with this blog , metaphorically and non,
I adore this site as well, I was raised to be feminine and sincere, and to love and obey, but I would never to anything less than a gentleman, at my age although I am young it seems all chivalry has be lost and forgotten ,

I would also like to say , without meaning any drama, I very much agree to that tom fellow being a rather big jerk

Re: The Writing on the Door

Michael — Wed, 13 May 2009 18:58:51 -0000

I think something to consider is the idea that the feminist movement may not have happened or been necessary if there had been a "men-imist" movement. I do not believe it was as much a matter of women being dissatisfied with the state of women as being a matter of men not being men. This forced women to fill the gap.

My experience is when a man behaves like and assumes the responsibilities of a real man, and treats his lady like a real woman. The woman feels less of a need to take charge or seek independence, and is happier in her feminine role. I believe women should be treated as equals, but at the same time viva la difference!

Re: The Writing on the Door

James — Wed, 06 May 2009 05:46:31 -0000

People seem to forget that being a TRUE gentleman does not involve putting women on a pedastal. A true gentleman will get that door whether you are a man or a woman. For some reason, though, the idea of a gentleman got skewed as putting women on some kind of pedastal.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Indiana — Tue, 05 May 2009 23:17:35 -0000

As a (female) child of the 70s, this article puzzles me. Never have I encountered the door-opening anxiety the author refers to - whoever gets there first opens the door. That's just good manners, male or female. Why should it be otherwise?

I also don't understand the example the writer gives of the supposed modern female confusion:

"We roll our eyes at macho posturing even though a man's bold strength and courage make us feel safe. We complain endlessly about the audacity of the male ego, but it's a man's confidence that gives us faith in his wherewithal. And while it's fashionable to sing the praises of a sensitive guy, I believe most of us prefer men who are thick-skinned and resilient.."

How is 'macho posturing' similar to 'strength and courage'? Surely it's the sign of someone attempting to feign qualities precisely because they lack them? And how is egotism related to confidence - don't empty bottles make the most noise? Can I not reject an arrogant, posturing man in favour of one who is quietly strong and confident? Likewise, can I not hope for a man who is 'sensitive' enough to be aware of my feelings, and sufficiently in tune with his own feelings to be resilient? These are false dichotomies.

Besides, none of these qualities are gender specific. Opening doors or being confident does not make me a man anymore than cooking dinner and nurturing a child makes my brother a woman.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Julie — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:01:42 -0000

As a woman raised by a "traditional" father, I'm pretty disappointed in this article. Be careful what you wish for.

It's the easiest thing in the world to pine for the "good old days" when you have little idea what you're actually talking about. Remember the 1950s, when hard work and industry were rewarded? When men opened doors and women didn't fear walking alone at night?

Certainly, you were well rewarded for hard work -- as long as you weren't black or an immigrant. And women didn't have much opportunity to leave their homes at any time of the day, and anyway, hitting your children and wife wasn't really such a crime, was it?

Of course, there's a wide margin of difference between opening doors for people based on gender and the acceptability of domestic abuse. But ask yourself about the common philosophical origin of each: women need strong men to guide them through life.

I'm not advocating rudeness. If anyone opens the door for you, smile and say thank you. If you get to the door first, I open it and hold it open for the next person, regardless of gender or age.

Don't project personal dissatisfaction with the way others treat you as a symptom of a problem with society which doesn't exist.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Regina — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:44:06 -0000

I've read this article, probably five or six times, and everytime I read it, I just want to sit and cry........

I'm a 39 yo female who has been married to what used to be my best friend. He knew me 17 years before we got married and I was this strong, self-sufficient woman. In the last couple of years I have wanted so desperately to "get back" to the way things used to be when women were ladies and men were protectors. I've tried to put a voice to this with my husband, but of course, it's considered "nagging." I love my husband desperately, but we've fallen victim to stereotypes and lifestyles that do not resonate with what I want in my life.

I literally dream of being the "woman of virtue" that the Bible talks about, but feel like I'm drowning in the path of what I thought women were supposed to be. I long day and night to feel cherished and "taken care of," but to my husband, I've just changed..............

I love this article. It spells out what has happened to our society of "ladies" and it's very, very disheartening. What do we do? How do we change? How can we get society to "go back" to the ways of chivalry? Please help us!!!!!

Re: The Writing on the Door

C. S. — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:12:51 -0000

The art of gentlemanly civility was instilled in me at a very young age by my mother. I'm in my late 40s and have experienced many different responses to opening doors, rising when seated when a female enters a room, approaches a dining table, seating a female, walking on the curbside of a sidewalk between a female and the street, etc. Some have been positive, most have been negative.

The rules of engagement were discarded during the feminist movement around these types of social interactions between genders were not replaced. Consequently, there exists only ambiguity in the generation that experienced life during an post early feminist movement positioning. Many females (my mother included) felt that some things were fine and at the same time, she felt that the polarization promoting an "us vs. them" mentality would severely damage, if no eliminate many of the positive attributes of established social interactions between genders. Her view of how a gentleman behaves did not shift during or after that particular era of the feminist movement.

For me, I continue to behave as a gentleman and applying the many acts of gentlemanly civility because I believe it to be correct, appropriate, and respectful of females. I also have the voice of my mother on my shoulder that would shame me endlessly should I violate those values and behaviors that she invested a great deal of time and energy teaching to me.

By the age of four, she had accomplished her goal and proved my skills and ability by testing all of them, including a formal meal at a restaurant while three waiters stood nearby at the ready should I experience an embarrassing accident, drop food, or somehow violate the expectations of the establishment and its clientele. Much to their amazement and my mother's pleasure, my behavior was perfect, my manners impeccable, and my behavior as a gentleman was beyond reproach.

I write all of that to say that whenever or whomever might feel slighted or offended that I express any gentlemanly act of civility, unapologetically, I simply ask them to call my mother, hand them a business card with her name and telephone number, and ask that they file a complaint with her. She is fully responsible and deserves all of the credit for any offense suffered by unsuspecting females who are victimized by these acts of gentlemanly civility. Interestingly, to my knowledge, she has yet to receive a telephone call and I have handed out many cards over the years. Perhaps she has received calls and her feminine civility will not allow her to disclose or mention such experiences.

The Gen X'rs are confused around, The Gen Ys do not seem to care, and the Millienials ... well, it's difficult to say at this point.

Regardless, my respect for her outweighs any offense that a female may experience from my gentlemanly civility.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Larissa — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:24:07 -0000

My boyfriend is a very manly man, I've never opened a door when I'm with him.

Re: The Writing on the Door

krg — Mon, 09 Mar 2009 12:07:13 -0000

thank you angela for this insight.
i am all for chivalry as it is, as it makes my life more easier in a relationship with a woman. my to-do list is generated by my instincts, so no confusion, and not to mention the playfulness introduced by the scuffle for endless door handles out there(figuratively). and a tap on my 'ceps at the end of the day for handling all the doors(figuratively) doesn't come down too hard on my ego, as i have other measures to gauge its performance(my career?). egos which get bruised at door handles need some serious workout, imho.
my lady is fully aware of this approach of mine and is all too comfortable and similarly follows her own instincts when it comes to acting in and for our relationship which always comes as a nice surprise for me, needless to say i love them when they do come.
but i am all for women empowerment. even willful submission may get construed as timid character, so i am all for baring fangs standing atop the black rock once in a while and then resting back, just to be sure you know. women have acted on their instincts for too long, so much that men have come to conclude that maybe they are like that because they are inept. so all this women empowerment going on since my childhood and likely to continue will probably help young men growing up in these years to be aware of the capabilities(which are same as men's) of the women around them and the young women growing to have a firm belief in themselves(same as men's) to act on their own will whenever the need be. so ladies, please do continue with your day jobs, but don't forget to be yourself with a man who understands what you are being, and men, take it easy unless mortally threatened.

at the end of it all, its all about being and acting secure and not being too bothered by anything, big or small, coming our way.

Re: The Writing on the Door

mythago — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:36:22 -0000

You like having men open doors and extend traditional social courtesies? Nothing wrong with that; many men are happy to open doors and extend those traditional social courtesies to you. I guess I'm just confused as to why you feel you need to justify this as something dictated by evolution, (particularly as the scientific community is very much in debate on those issues). And yes, it is a little disturbing to see embrace of those traditional norms as a marker of what it means to 'be a woman' or 'be a man'. Perhaps you didn't mean it this way, but you're implying that there is something inferior or freakish about those who don't enjoy those traditional roles as much as you do.

Re: The Writing on the Door

The Lack of Decentcy. — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:10:52 -0000

Dear Mrs. Bailey.
i searched all over the internet to find your article. i found it quite interesting...
i read all the comments and found myself writing down the URL
,btw, that's what the "joke"' that you didn't hear in the class!!! p.s. i found this article and i flipped! now i'm emailing it to my possey!!! c-ya!!! oh and yea, good game...:-S

Re: The Writing on the Door

Angela Bailey — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:30:29 -0000

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for taking the time to read and so thoroughly digest my article. I do welcome your comments.

I doubt a debate about who can "prove" what is particularly useful here. Biology can no more prove that our genetic make-up affects our behaviour than Sociology can disprove it. However I do admire your courage, dare I say manliness, at calling me out on my arguments as you rest yours on the tenants of such a soft science.

That being said, my position that our intellects cannot entirely govern out biology is based on the well-accepted theories of natural section and sex selection which nearly all scientists and educated people believe are the very best explanations we have for how the characteristics of all living things have evolved. I would never be foolish enough to argue that social conditioning is not an important factor affecting human behaviour. All I'm trying to say is that genetics might be another, perhaps more significant factor. If you are interested in exploring these ideas further, might I suggest you read The Mating Mind: How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by Geoffrey Miller.

Again, I really appreciate your comments. They have given me some ideas for future posts on my blog www.welovemen.wordpress.com.

Angela

Re: The Writing on the Door

Kevin — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:22:58 -0000

While I appreciate the consideration and sensitivity with which Angela wrote this essay, I feel obligated to point out some fuzzy spots in her argument. I believe she acknowledges the cultural underpinnings of our gender norms, especially as she percieves them to have changed (which they have to a certain degree). However, she seems to rely upon the notion of biological determinism as the mechanism through with maleness and femaleness are constructed. While there are obvious anatomical differences, I do not see that DNA has determined what types of social behaviors we appreciate in our opposite-sex interactions short of sex itself. As a student of sociology, I am well aware of the social construction of gender. Although the feminist movement has led to a relaxing of the hitherto mandated gender norms, they have nonetheless not disappeared from our society's consciousness. As evidence, I point to some of the comments on this page praising films that espouse traditional male and female roles. So, of course these old time norms that used to have such a stronghold are still circulating out there and having an impact on our socialization (albeit an ambivalent one). This gradual cultural change, I believe, is what is leading to our confusion, not biology. I am curious if Angela is by chance a biology teacher? If so, I would appreciate if she could point to hard evidence of the part of the DNA that determines our gendered social interactions. Until then, I will stand by social science.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Roland — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:52:28 -0000

The only time I've ever seen a women have a problem with a guy holding the door, was when the guy made a freakin' production out of it.. This is the same guy who thinks it's "classy" to kiss a girl's hand when they meet. *rollseyes*

To have an issue, you need that beautiful combination of a guy who's a jerk (see above) and likes to make a production of of things where women come in, and a woman who's hypersensitive. Most women just roll their eyes and say "thanks" as they pass through the door, leaving that guy in their wake (so she doesn't have to run for the hills, later).

Personally, I'm with the camp who tends to hold the door for pretty much anybody.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Brad — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:19:17 -0000

What if there are two doors one right after another? I experience this every day. If you hold open the first door, you can't hold the second one.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Tim — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:59:34 -0000

Tom said :"Ryan- Women are not any more perceptive than men… that’s why women talk so much. Women use more words in a day than men do. That’s because men are better at reading body language and reading non-verbal cues. If women were as perceptive as you claim, they wouldnt have to ask what you’re thinking all the time. They could just read your body language. I think we need to stop the male/female sterotypes here. Men are just as perceptive as women. I would argue that men are more so."

I have to strongly disagree with this. All the experts I have read in books and articles on body language say that women are far more perceptive at reading body language than men. I've also read that contrary to popular belief men may actually use more words a day than women, but I'm less sure about this. This theory claims that men do more talking to communicate facts and information, as in a workplace, while women do more communication to express or gauge feelings, which often occurs at home (the basis for "women nagging men once they come home from work"). Anyways, the issues of gender differences are far too complex and mysterious for me to even begin to assess, but I do think you're wrong about perceptiveness.

As for the article itself, it's fantastic and well written. Articles like this is why I love AoM. I may not always be the best purveyor of it, but I do pride myself in acting gentlemanly and chivalrous, and I'm always interested in improving. This article paints the picture of the type of woman I would love to have as a girlfriend: independent and intelligent, but also feminine, caring, and wanting and encouraging manliness in her boyfriend.

Re: The Writing on the Door

Santa — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:23:20 -0000

When I was as young as I can remember my mother would take me to the stores with her and I was always told by her to walk ahead and open the door for her. If I ever forgot she would get upset with me and then give me a small talk about what being a boy meant and how all boys were suppose to do this. She instilled this on me at a young age and as a 30 yr old adult it's just always been 2nd hand nature to me. I always open doors even sometimes for guys. It's not only being gentlemen like, it's polite and a kind gesture to those who may not even know you. If there are guys out there that don't do this it's probably because no one ever taught or explained to them why they should. It's the parents fault. It's the same as when you invite a lady out for dinner. If you made the invitation and you asked her, you should very well pay for her meal even if she insists you don't. Women aren't like men. They don't always say what they really want because they think men will think they aren't independent and strong. I've learned that if a woman says "oh it's ok. I'll pay for myself." Just be a man and get around to paying for her while she's not even noticed.. Then when she says it, you just say, "Hey no worries. I've already taken care of it." She will respect you more for putting her needs before yours.